The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[starlingdaly]

Do you have a link to your starter recipe and bread recipe?  I have tried a few recipes and somehow the first few loafs turn out great then flat loafs.

I don't remember the exact recipe but I think the starter is 50 grams water and 50 grams flour. I don't have a bread recipe. I just use as much extra starter as I have, add salt and enough flour to make it bread dough and let rise for a few hours, then bake. If I'm adding bread yeast, I add it before adding the extra flour and let rise for only a couple of hours before baking. I don't usually beat it down, either...
I'm no expert, though and there are so many ways to make a loaf of bread!

After incubating several doz eggs this year, both chicken (different breeds) and turkey I can honestly say that I won't candle again unless I feel there is a real problem.  Every batch that I candled, using a regular flashlight and a toilet paper or paper towel tube, I think the eggs died at that time.  Not all but maybe half.  I handled them with clean hands, very carefully, in the same room where there were incubated.  In previous years, I've had either 100% or nearly that.  The shipped eggs, I really can't count as they were pretty scrambled.  I used several different flashlights thinking they were getting too hot.  Maybe it's just me.

I probably already know this answer but I moved 2 chicks and 2 poults to the porch brooder, giving them more room.  After 3 days, one of the poults acts like he might have a broken leg. But if it were broken it would be in an odd angle or dangle.  It started out twitching and it's foot/toes were together (as opposed to stretched out in a walking position).  He uses his wings to balance and get around.  I put him in a plastic pot (4x4) with pine chips under him to keep him upright and safe away from the other nosy ones.  He's very content in there.  Every 2 hours or so I get him out and place him near food and water.  He's drinking and eating very well.  Very chipper, eyes open and bright.  His elbow (where the fleshish part means the fuzzy featherish of his leg) appears to be swollen, compared to the other one.  This morning, it wasn't as swollen and his foot appeared more normal(but still not).  He's hobbling around.  The other 3 are always on a crash course and knock him all over if I don't try to protect him.  Should I just put him down?   Could it be a bad sprain?  I couldn't find much on the internet about it.  Thanks.  sue

I use an LED pen flashlight for candling my eggs.

And I also had a few problems with chicks limping for unknown reasons. Someone suggested vitamin E on another thread (their own experience) and I found my problem was vitamin D deficiency because my vitamin supplement had gone bad. But if you have them outside where they have access to sunlight it is probably not D.

 

[salt and pepper]

Interesting! Now I have to do some research and see if there is new info out.

The last time I did any intensive reading about garlic, it was stating that it needed to be used within 5 minutes, fresh. At that time there was question if the processing that was being done to produce the oils and the dried rendered them pretty much useless. HOWEVER...they were specifically talking about the Allicin in the garlic and it's ANTI-BIOTIC PROPERTIES which the studies stated were rendered very week or not useful after the first 5 min. They weren't commenting on the other qualities of garlic or their possible degeneration under processing.

So..now my curiosity is up...I'm going to have to do more reading on this one!

I did some research on it, and it is true that allicin dissipates faster then the other health benefits, but it lasts anywhere from 2-16 hours if extracted ( garlic juice ) but if kept with the other parts of the garlic, it stays intact for over two days. Hope this helps!!

 

[Mumsy]

Strange. I couldn't tell you why that is, just that it's never happened to me. If I get quitters, they are spaced out - so not really able to pin point what caused it without opening them up, and even then it's hard to say sometimes.

X2

The quitters I get are also spaced out. On a couple Silkie batches and a couple RIR batches , it was the seven day quit mark on just a few eggs. I take my eggs out to candle seven at a time opening the lid of the bator. I don't tip my eggs. I hold them just like they are placed in the carton. I also use an LED flash light in a very dark closet. There are a host of reasons for embryos quitting. I would look first at the fertility of the Cock, the health of hens, the storage of eggs before incubating, the cleanliness of everything....And then keep very very good notes. Sometimes it's just one of those things going wrong in the egg or multiples.

 

[brandislee]

Interesting! Now I have to do some research and see if there is new info out.

The last time I did any intensive reading about garlic, it was stating that it needed to be used within 5 minutes, fresh. At that time there was question if the processing that was being done to produce the oils and the dried rendered them pretty much useless. HOWEVER...they were specifically talking about the Allicin in the garlic and it's ANTI-BIOTIC PROPERTIES which the studies stated were rendered very week or not useful after the first 5 min. They weren't commenting on the other qualities of garlic or their possible degeneration under processing.

So..now my curiosity is up...I'm going to have to do more reading on this one!

Let me know what you find, but I know she was specifically speaking of the allicin and the antibiotic property in the garlic, because she was speaking (well, writing) in reference to using garlic to treat infections. I'll look at the book and see if she gives a citation for that part.

I don't remember the exact recipe but I think the starter is 50 grams water and 50 grams flour. I don't have a bread recipe. I just use as much extra starter as I have, add salt and enough flour to make it bread dough and let rise for a few hours, then bake. If I'm adding bread yeast, I add it before adding the extra flour and let rise for only a couple of hours before baking. I don't usually beat it down, either...
I'm no expert, though and there are so many ways to make a loaf of bread!
I use an LED pen flashlight for candling my eggs.

And I also had a few problems with chicks limping for unknown reasons. Someone suggested vitamin E on another thread (their own experience) and I found my problem was vitamin D deficiency because my vitamin supplement had gone bad. But if you have them outside where they have access to sunlight it is probably not D.

Sourdough is so simple, but I know it tends to freak people out. To make a starter it's just roughly equal parts of water and flour, BUT the ratio isn't at all important, just mix a small amount (1/4 cup or even a few T) to the consistancy you like. When making a new starter just remember to stir it a few times a day to arrate, and cover to keep bugs out (but don't close tightly, preferably cover with cloth). THAT'S IT. You should see bubbles by day 3 or 4. Give it a tiny bit more flour and water then, and every few days until it's very active and you have about 2 cups of starter, since most recipe calls for 1 cup of starter.

The simplest sourdough bread recipe (the one I use): Mix 1 cup of starter with 3 cups of warm water. Add 6 1/2 cups flour (less if using whole wheat), 1 1/2 T. kosher salt, and 1 T. apple cider vinegar. Mix well, but don't knead. Let sit at room temp overnight/6 hours or until roughly doubled in size, or until it rises and begins to fall in on itself (whichever happens first). Then refridgerate overnight or at least 6 more hours. Take a chunk out (this batch makes 2 good sized free form loafs, no idea how many pan loafs, I haven't tried it in a pan), form a loaf on a floured cutting board or pizza peel and preheat your oven to 450 with either a covered stone/cast iron/clay pan or pot (I use a baking stone and a terra cotta flower bowl as a cover) OR a broiler pan on the lowest rack, below the rack you plan to bake on (and boil some water if using a broiler pan... also if you use a broiler pan you can form your loaf on a cookie sheet or other baking pan instead of a cutting board/peel). Let the formed loaf rise for about 30-40 minutes, slash the top, then place in the oven and poor hot water into the broiler pan and close the door quickly (it will steam) OR cover with the preheated lid/cover.

FOR COVERED BREAD: Bake at this temp for 30 minutes, then remove cover and reduce temp to 400 and bake another 15 minutes, or until bread is golden and sounds hollow when tapped on the bottom.

FOR BROILER PAN BREAD: I never do it this way, but the recipe I have says to leave it at 450 and bake for 45 minutes.

Hopefully that was clear!

 

[cool chick 1984]

I've been feeding my chickens milk kefir off and on but they seem to have a case of the mites so I'm increasing it to once a day. It's been wet and they haven't had a good dust bath in awhile. I covered an area in the yard hoping it stays drier, lol. Not sure if that's in vain or not but it's their favorite spot. People are talking alot about garlic in here but all I have is crappy garlic from the store. There's a garlic fest coming up soon and I want to get lots of good local garlic for them. It's hard to believe that garlic will help them. I use ACV in their water.
I read somewhere to give sick chickens wheatbran soaked in buttermilk. I'm feeling like they need pick me up and my herbs have been reduced to mint. They ate all the lemon balm last year. They loved that stuff but they hardly touch the spearmint. I think if they like the lemon balm I will have to get more and keep it somewhat protected so it grows big and hardy before they pluck it out.

Any suggestions on what to feed them other than garlic to help them along during this mite battle? I did read that cloves were good to battle bugs. Will they eat cloves on their own? I'm going to sprinkle some fennel seed and mint in their nestboxes.

All I have is straw for beeding right now but I dusted the nestboxes with woodash and DE with the straw. The mud in the run has been eating strawt like crazy. I hope it dries up for a few weeks so we can raise the run and fill it with sand.

Thank you for all the information in the thread so far.

 

[brandislee]

So I have 6 nest boxes for the 17 hens in my main coop. Plenty, right? Well, now I have four broody hens sitting in that coop. So I'm down to two nest boxes for 13 hens. That's a little less than ideal. I have a big nest box (like 12 nests I think) just sitting in my shed doing nothing. It's too big to fit in my coop, but I'm thinking about putting it in my covered area at least for the next few weeks.

That'll learn me, though. I should know by now "ask and ye shall receive..." and it never goes like you ask. Three weeks ago I was begging for more chickens to go broody. One of them is even one of my stinking' production Gold Stars. I had one go so broody last year as well (a different one, that particular one is no longer with us...) that it tried to sit for over two months, no matter what I did! And I couldn't give that one any eggs because she literally started to sit two weeks after I processed both of my roosters, and my buckeye roosters weren't mature yet. This year I'm letting the GS sit on 5 eggs, but now because of my drama I'm worried that she'll be like the stupid hatchery Faverolle who just pecked all of her chicks as they hatched. I'll be watching her super carefully when the time comes. This time, though, hopefully I have a backup, because Mama (does everyone have a broody named Mama?), who was an awesome broody and mother last year, started to sit the very same day, so if there are issues I can just slip any remaining eggs under her.

I need to get my butt outside on this cold rainy day and move more leaves into the run. I had an issue this spring that I finally got around to dealing with yesterday (the garden has me really behind, but other than mulching I think I'm pretty caught up). I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this because it's just plain dumb, but maybe someone will benefit from my experience. So I've talked about the covered part of my run before- it's a 10x10 a frame I built so the chickens have more snow free space in the winter, and it's also a good place to feed but keep the feed out of the coop, and give some shade and shelter from hawks when they're in the run. When I built it I put one bag of shavings in it, but that was two winters ago and I hadn't added any bedding since (lots spills out of the coop, though). This spring, as things thawed and the snow melted, I noticed an AWFUL smell in the run. Like bad. Like pig manure bad. And the ground was squishy in front of the gate and around/in front of the covered area. Now, my ground doesn't get squishy. Ever. Not after 11 inches of rain in one day. It's almost completely sand. I thought it was just because the ground under was still frozen and, sand or not, the melt didn't have anywhere to go. But I took a shovel and dug down a little and in and around the covered area (it's open on the sides at the bottom foot or so) was like 4-6 inches of ROTTING FEED. I just started to FF my layers this spring, and you know how they dig in/spill dry feed... I hadn't even thought about it. Then all the run off soaked into it, and yuck resulted...

So I got it ALL scooped out yesterday (it was heavy, too) and put down a good layer of garden lime to neutralize the smell, and I'm in the process of putting in a good, deep layer of leaves in the whole run but especially in the covered area. Then I'll remove the leaves every fall and put them in the garden, then add that year's new leaves. It already smells like 5000x better.

Yeah, another benefit to FF. A LOT less spilled feed, and the waste and issues that goes along with that.

 

[delisha]

I am new to chickens and have a perplexing issue, my 6wk old sfh chick has been acting a little less spunky and showing signs of respiratory distress when stressed. I originally thought it was from the wet fermented feed making dirty stick to its nostrils. When its stressed aka when i hold it

it gasps, gargles, and even has had mucus and bubbles at its worst. It has a pale yellow beak and I noticed that it had dark "boogers" blocking its nostrils so I took a moist qtip and cleaned it out, it seemed spunkier and better all day but tonight when I checked on it, it had dark "boogers" again and gargling and gasping. Can't be from the fermented feed cause I haven't feed it today. Any suggestions?

Raw liver and garlic chopped fine. 1 tsp should do it daily for a solid week.(for each ill chick)
Than once a week. Do an additional 1 tsp for all the rest of the chicks during treatment.

For those of you that are having problems with the SFH thriving - it may just be an issue of getting some raw meat protein in their diet.

In particular, try some very tiny minced raw liver daily for them to eat for a week or 2. You can reduce the number of feedings as they stabilize, but I'd continue w/the liver from time to time indefinitely. (Liver if relatively inexpensive - see if you can find a source from locally raised animals that are not being raised on antibiotics in a "factory setting" that are on pasture if possible.)

Swedes seem to have a more pronounced need for B1 and B2 and the liver will take care of that in short order. It is most bio-available from animal sources; grain-based diets can create a deficiency in the B vitamins and minerals. Also, NO medicated feed which contains an ingredient that blocks thiamine absorption.

For a really quick "not natural" boost, you can try putting a little poly-vi-sol in their water source. Be sure it doesn't have added iron as it would be toxic to them.

X2

Quote: Do you have a link to your starter recipe and bread recipe? I have tried a few recipes and somehow the first few loafs turn out great then flat loafs.

Quote: How do you like the magic bullet? is it easier to clean than a food processor? or at least does it take up less space in a dishwasher?
I use a cheap food processor that holds one cup. It cost me $1 at a rummage sale.

N
Quote: Education is valuable..knowledge is power...I know some of you can't egg topsy..I can't stress enough how much you learn by doing it. Not only do you learn..but you have an oppertunity to share with others.

After incubating several doz eggs this year, both chicken (different breeds) and turkey I can honestly say that I won't candle again unless I feel there is a real problem. Every batch that I candled, using a regular flashlight and a toilet paper or paper towel tube, I think the eggs died at that time. Not all but maybe half. I handled them with clean hands, very carefully, in the same room where there were incubated. In previous years, I've had either 100% or nearly that. The shipped eggs, I really can't count as they were pretty scrambled. I used several different flashlights thinking they were getting too hot. Maybe it's just me.

I probably already know this answer but I moved 2 chicks and 2 poults to the porch brooder, giving them more room. After 3 days, one of the poults acts like he might have a broken leg. But if it were broken it would be in an odd angle or dangle. It started out twitching and it's foot/toes were together (as opposed to stretched out in a walking position). He uses his wings to balance and get around. I put him in a plastic pot (4x4) with pine chips under him to keep him upright and safe away from the other nosy ones. He's very content in there. Every 2 hours or so I get him out and place him near food and water. He's drinking and eating very well. Very chipper, eyes open and bright. His elbow (where the fleshish part means the fuzzy featherish of his leg) appears to be swollen, compared to the other one. This morning, it wasn't as swollen and his foot appeared more normal(but still not). He's hobbling around. The other 3 are always on a crash course and knock him all over if I don't try to protect him. Should I just put him down? Could it be a bad sprain? I couldn't find much on the internet about it. Thanks. sue

If it is working for you..keep doing it. If the bird is improving..keep doing it. The bird will get out when it is ready.

Quote: Or not..every environment is different. You need to find what works for you. I find I have better hatch rates with less handling. I put the eggs in and start checking for peeping on day 18 by just tapping on the eggs. Or I wait till I can hear it or see it. I have even gone in there and found them still in the turner..with chicks hanging out of the eggs. I have an advantage..a sensitive nose. I wish I had better hearing. I can smell as soon as I walk in the room if an egg is bad. Than I have to handle eggs until I find the one. Yesterday my DH said..how many chicks do you have in that room? I said non. He said, well you have a few in there. Sure enough, two chicks were peeping away in the egg turner. I have been having 95% or better hatching since I do not handle.

If you decide to candle next time..please try this suggestion. If you know they die on candle day it is because of going into the incubator. It is the drastic change from beginning to end of humidity and temp. Every time you open the incubator you exchange air.

Get a 1/2 cup of hot water(120 degrees). Stick in a sanitized sponge to soak up the water. Put it in the incubator as you take out your first egg. When you place the egg back..take out 4-6 eggs. Place them in a covered warm towel. (hot pad under towel)Test all the eggs and replace them and take out the next batch.
Continue till you are done. Remove the hot wet sponge. (your temp and humidity will turn to normal in a few hours so do not adjust anything)

Interesting! Now I have to do some research and see if there is new info out.

The last time I did any intensive reading about garlic, it was stating that it needed to be used within 5 minutes, fresh. At that time there was question if the processing that was being done to produce the oils and the dried rendered them pretty much useless. HOWEVER...they were specifically talking about the Allicin in the garlic and it's ANTI-BIOTIC PROPERTIES which the studies stated were rendered very week or not useful after the first 5 min. They weren't commenting on the other qualities of garlic or their possible degeneration under processing.

So..now my curiosity is up...I'm going to have to do more reading on this one!

http://www.allicinfacts.com/about-allicin/future-of-allicin/
http://voices.yahoo.com/allicin-infections-treat-prevent-infections-7483920.html?cat=5

 

[stonykill]

brand new lil ones this morning

 

[armorfirelady]

So I got it ALL scooped out yesterday (it was heavy, too) and put down a good layer of garden lime to neutralize the smell, and I'm in the process of putting in a good, deep layer of leaves in the whole run but especially in the covered area. Then I'll remove the leaves every fall and put them in the garden, then add that year's new leaves. It already smells like 5000x better.

Yeah, another benefit to FF. A LOT less spilled feed, and the waste and issues that goes along with that.

To save you the work of cleaning out the leaves you could just let them break down naturally and just stir the area to keep it dry. Just add other oganic matter as you go or shavings and you will have a great deep littler going to dump in the garden in the spring. I like to use shavings, leaves, grass clippings, pine needles, weeds, etc. By the end of the winter when I turned it all I had over 2 ft of DL but when the hens worked it down i t was about 12 inches. It allw ent into the veggie garden this spring. I rarely had an odor and all the chicken poop was broken down so it was perfect for the garden. Heck I even had earthworms in December because the ground under the DL never froze

I would think it would work on sandy ground also. My soil is mostly clay when you get down deeper than 6-12 inches

 

[Ashdoes]

I started FF because of the amount of dry feed all over the ground in the barn. The waste has gone to almost zero...until now. Have you seen ducks eat!? My goodness, they are messy little things. When I put out food, the chickens know to eat as fast as they can because the ducks come over and the food starts flying. The only positive is the chickens clean up all the flung food...I hate to say it, but I've been thinking I'm not a duck person. I really like how easy the chickens are, very low maintenance once you've got a schedule down. Considering my husband is gone for 7-8 months every other year, at a minimum, low maintenance is my best friend. Going to think hard on it.