The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[lazy gardener]

This is done with commercial incubation, but not typically done with home incubation. I would not bother to do so. But, it might be interesting to see a side by side study comparing results.

 

[lazy gardener]

Seems to be so. In the stuff I just started reading up on the little microbes are quick to multiply once the egg is laid and if they get into it the egg can increase mortality rates, hatch out low weight and sick chicks even. Now we have to keep big ag conditions in mind that work to increase microbe infection rates, but even a small backyard operation could have poor hygiene. And once you use an incubator you want clean clean as clean can be becuase the incubator creates conditions perfect for microbes. So any thing to improve on not killing your hatching eggs or producing sick chicks is good small or large scale. Example one study showed you can lose up to 20% of your chicks before they even hatch by simply not using good hygiene concerning the eggs first. These studies are also good as the look at usually other variables too some which are easy to improve success for chicks. Basically you can improve hatch rates, improve hatched chick weight and health at hatching by good practices. Some are simple, no soiled eggs, use eggs only so old, keep eggs stored at dorminate temperature range, find a simple way to disinfect eggs asap after laying, keep nest boxes clean, coop clean and so.

Also just a thought purchased or selling hatching eggs, we all know how hard those mailed eggs can be to get to hatch for tons of reasons... packaging, damage to package, temperatures exposed to in transit, cracked and scrambled eggs, and so on. It just seems if you sell you might up the customer success rate with a disinfection process at time of collection. I would test out the solutions first before using on eggs selling to others.

Just my thoughts on it... I was just looking for ideas for washing my coop lol but I now know more about egg hygiene.

Just curious, how often do you hatch, and have you done any comparison between your hatch rate with washed eggs and unwashed eggs? My hatch rate often runs at 95%, after elimination of infertile eggs. I do not ever wash my hatching eggs. I believe the industry standard hatch rate is 80%. And that is with eggs that are washed, if they are hatchery eggs.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

I wish I could incubate some eggs. I just started researching this at best I could maybe research how to do microbe counts? I don't have a microscope. I was looking for some things to use to clean my coop besides bleach. Folks suggested I read up on a few links which then made me wonder about industry standard practices, quail versus chicken studies and so on. I have to keep my coop clean, I have immune system compromised family members... so I want to keep the birds and the eggs we eat super low on bad microbe count to prevent bad microbes getting a foot hold. I have not tried this but after reading a few studies and papers I can see why they do it. It would be interesting to see if people's hatch rates increase, of course the problem is all the variables. Some folks on BYC do have big flocks and big incubators though. I just got my two hens... no breeding right now. What I might do is start spraying the eggs, air dry then refrigerate just to keep microbe count down on the food end.

I found this last study supper interesting as it compared what we would consider natural based disinfect process with chemical based ones and the industry standard. Based on the % being used they collect the eggs toss the obvious rejects and the number left is what they treat and incubate so that is your 100% set number for the various test groups then what ever hatches gives you your % that hatched, the remainder is the dead, they then look at when the egg died to figure out at what stage it failed.

I think the industry try's to get hatch rates in the 90s from what I can tell in the studies I have read so far.

 

[lazy gardener]

There are so many variables related to hatch, including incubator reliability, ability of the poultry owner to assess air cell size, and adjust humidity to compensate, even time of year when eggs are collected plays into the grand scheme of things. It would be hard for the small flock owner to do any kind of study that would provide significant data. I don't know how often the industry achieves 90% or better hatch rate. Admirable that they have that goal, but my reading has said they average 80%. So, for the small flock owner with a mickey mouse incubator, in my case... home made to achieve 95% with UNWASHED eggs, I consider the thought of washing eggs for incubation to be a moot point.

However, when dealing with immunosuppression, I applaud you for doing the homework to achieve your sanitation goals in the safest way possible.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I, also coming from a small flock perspective, wouldn't worry about washing eggs for hatching either. I admit up-front that I've not incubated using an incubator before. But, like @lazy gardener was saying, I think in commercial hatcheries the chance for disease is much greater due to the poor husbandry.

One thing that should be mentioned is that when a chicken lays an egg, there is a protective coating on the shell referred to as the 'bloom". If the bloom is in-tact, it is designed to be a protective coating that keeps bacteria and other items from entering and contaminating the eggs. When an egg is washed, that natural protection is removed and the process of washing can actually create conditions for dirt/bacteria/etc. to be pulled into the shell.

I try to be careful from whom I get eggs for hatching. And when I hatch our own I know for sure how they were raised. Our eggs very seldom have any "poo" on them - they're usually very clean with only very few exceptions. I wouldn't want to wash any eggs and end up contaminating them by removing the coating. I'd be more concerned washing them than leaving them.

Actually, I don't wash eggs for eating either. Not even if I'm selling or giving them away. If there is a poo stain of any kind I "might" take a scotch-brite type pad, dry, and give that area a light brushing to remove the stain. But I never use any kind of liquid on them so I'm not contaminating the egg itself.

 

[Leahs Mom]

@thewatsonfarm
I sent you a private message re the feed

 

[Molpet]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/it-occurred-to-me-crazy-egg-idea.1155066/
this person did a small scale test.. started w/shipping methods but also did washing eggs....

 

[Leahs Mom]

@Molpet
Could you tell us what her conclusion was so that we don't have to read 9 pages

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

I read the nine pages. Her experiments are mirroring the hatch rate study findings pretty well despite problems.

The cleaner the egg the better the HR

The temperatures the eggs are exposed to affects them

Disinfectants can not get past foreign organic matter on eggs, feces, food, soil, blood... the disinfectant does not push the bad microbes in though as she speculated, what is going on is the matter prevents the disinfectant from reaching the bad microbes and killing them which then allows them to infect the egg in incubation conditions and kill the fertile egg.

Disinfectant in the studies does improve HR as bacteria can jump from say 500 to 30000 in just a few hours giving the bacteria a higher chance of penetrating the natural protective aspects of the egg like bloom. (Just for the record I believe in trying to keep mother natures protective barrier too).

The study I posted used an all natural antibacterial substance created by bees which actually seems to have sealed the eggs a bit and those had the best HR becuase they maintained higher levels of moisture internally through the whole incubation... so the idea of sealing the eggs somehow does seem to have value... and oddly ties in with a real old game fowl book I was reading that talks about storing hatching eggs not for days but longer periods prerefrigeration technology... going to have to find that text and take a second look at something I thought was pure hog wash. So her idea may have serious merit. The eggs may not need to breath like we have all been told if dormant.

Egg size and HR are also addressed in studies, there is an optimum size it seems... that gives best HR, It is based on weight of egg, I would have to refind the data, but it is the size that the meat and game fowl industry recomends, I tripped over that a year ago... bigger and smaller eggs usually hatch less.

Also there are differences in HR between younger and older birds, older birds usually have better HR than pullets but again old to a Hatchery is not old to us, and HR do tapper off from what I can tell in real old hens from folks trying to get one last breeding of super rare lines on BYC.

But based on my random science paper/study reading the micro BYC experiments are proving the data from larger tests.

As to shipping packaging that is huge, if done right the chances improve if done wrong oh dear less than 50% is normal. I have seen by cruising the net the disasters people have received I have also seen eggs shipped from India to the UK arrive in great shape and the guy had good HR but those eggs were packed for space flight it was amazing watching the dude in the UK unwrap those eggs.

I am very interested to see how these experiments continue between folks. I will look at the links to other experiments posted on those 9 pages next.

 

[thewatsonfarm]

@thewatsonfarm
I sent you a private message re the feed

I finally got a chance to read it today. Thank you so much!!! I'm so grateful that you took the time & energy to share so much valuable information. Seriously -- I printed it, because there were so many important things I want to make sure to remember!!! Many, many thanks, Leahsmom!!!