The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Mr MKK FARMS]

Things I've learned about the molt. ..

1. They can molt before they are a year old. Oprah is 11 months old.

2. Your biggest hen can turn into the smallest in a week.

3. They can survive extremely cold temps during the molt but look miserable doing it.

4. Appetite is poor for a week or so while molting.... you would think they would be ravenous.

5. Appetite comes back before they are done molting and they become ravenous again.

6. They somehow retain their flock position and no one picks on them when they're down.

What did I miss? Add to the list if you have a mind to....

 

[Pnoah1]

I live in the Deep South, my lawn is still green; it's different than in the summer, but still green. There's something that looks like it might be miniature duck weed.

Sounds great! I'll keep an eye out for your PM. =)

Awesome!

 

[Pnoah1]

honestly, if you're wanting to 'create' barred cochins, you're better off starting with barred cochins, otherwise it will be many generations before they actually look like cochins...

I have spoken with professionals at a competition for show chickens called the Harford fair, he stated that if you breed a regulare Barred Rock Bantam with a white Cochin Rooster you have a chance of getting a barred rock Frizzle.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I have only had one broody since I got chickens this past summer, but as soon as her chicks hatched and started getting feathers of their own, she started molting as well! Unfortunately, she is the one we lost a few weeks ago to a predator.

I think that it makes sense for them to molt earlier. Maybe it has more to do with their body slowing down/quitting laying that triggers the molt, so either being broody or the shorter days can trigger a molt? Just thinking out loud.

I also think that the "semi-fast" that they go on when broody is a body-cleansing time too. Then everything is renewed. Makes a lot of sense.

Yeah...you're wondering what I'm wondering too!

Leahs Mom, I think you are right. The change in hormones for brooding and the semi-fast would trigger a "natural" molt.

It all just begs "what is normal" for chickens... to molt in fall? Is it really "natural" or simply the result of how we've manipulated the bloodlines to get less broodiness. Or if we leave the chickens to their own natural genetics, would they brood in spring, molt in late summer, and be fat and sassy by the time of winter cold?

I've noted in my quest for natural winter layers (those who lay well in winter without additional lighting) that a number of breeds that are reported to be good at winter laying are also reported as being frequent or good brooders...the Chantecler for instance.

I would love to read a study if someone has selected for broodiness and found molts to be different. I wonder how the overall health and hardiness of the flock would be. I suspicion overall better and healthier as they would not have the stress of molting during the stress of winter.

Anyway...thanks for kicking around thoughts with me and entertaining my musings.
Lady of McCamley

 

[ki4got]

I hate to tell you this, but your 'professional' has no clue what he's talking about as far as breed standards and genetics are concerned.

you breed a frizzle of any breed to a barred bird of any breed you've got a good chance of getting a barred frizzle. but it won't match the breed description for either of the breeds that goes into it.

every breed has a physical characteristic it must meet to be called that breed, regardless of the color variety. a white Wyandotte should look exactly like a black Wyandotte or a silver laced Wyandotte, in every respect except for the color of the feathers. that's what makes it a Wyandotte.

I would highly recommend getting a copy (new or old, very little has changed over the years) of the APA Standard of Perfection. it outlines the requirements for each breed recognized by the APA, ranging from weights to wing carriage, tail angulation, feathering requirements and more.

breeding 2 entirely dissimilar breeds like a rock and a cochin, you will end up with an assortment of traits that don't match either breed description.

barred rocks and barred cochins are both barred birds, but that's where the similarities end, for the most part.

if you want a barred frizzled bird, cross 2 birds of the same breed with those colors. but if you want a barred frizzle, you're better off crossing a black frizzle with a barred. white hides too many other mutations to be a reliable cross for anything.

this is a bantam barred rock... (from feathersite)

this is a barred cochin... even tho they're the same color there's no way breeding one to the other would result in any offspring matching either parent in anything but color. yes, they would all be barred. that's it. (posted by 'strike' 4 years ago on another byc thread)

 

[ki4got]

Quote: as someone with nearly ALL broody breeds (cochins, Dorkings, and dottes), I can say for sure that my girls that went broody in early spring and raised chicks went straight into a moult as soon as the last chicks were gone (sold). and for the most part were done with their moults by the time the cold weather hit. the non-broody girls are the ones that decided to moult late (my ee's for the most part). that goes for all girls over a year old. the ee's were late (just now finishing their moults) and the rest have been done for over a month now.

and FINALLY egg production is picking back up some. I collected 5 eggs yesterday and 3 today (2 Dorkings are laying now, and I think 1 of my sfh now that I've turned them loose again

)

 

[Lady of McCamley]

as someone with nearly ALL broody breeds (cochins, Dorkings, and dottes), I can say for sure that my girls that went broody in early spring and raised chicks went straight into a moult as soon as the last chicks were gone (sold). and for the most part were done with their moults by the time the cold weather hit. the non-broody girls are the ones that decided to moult late (my ee's for the most part). that goes for all girls over a year old. the ee's were late (just now finishing their moults) and the rest have been done for over a month now.

and FINALLY egg production is picking back up some. I collected 5 eggs yesterday and 3 today (2 Dorkings are laying now, and I think 1 of my sfh now that I've turned them loose again

)

Yeah. You see it too. A number of people who enjoy broodies and let them brood all agree with what I have noticed in my flock and say what you just said.

Somehow I find this all veerrrryyyy interesting.

I'm going to continue to manipulate my flock for naturally good brooders and naturally good winter layers...and for the sake of eggs on the table keep a certain percentage of commercial lines so that I have eggs in spring.

My dream is to have my own acreage so that I can breed back to a more heritage state. Would be verrryyyy interesting indeed.

Lady of McCamley

 

[Pnoah1]

I hate to tell you this, but your 'professional' has no clue what he's talking about as far as breed standards and genetics are concerned.

you breed a frizzle of any breed to a barred bird of any breed you've got a good chance of getting a barred frizzle. but it won't match the breed description for either of the breeds that goes into it.

every breed has a physical characteristic it must meet to be called that breed, regardless of the color variety. a white Wyandotte should look exactly like a black Wyandotte or a silver laced Wyandotte, in every respect except for the color of the feathers. that's what makes it a Wyandotte.

I would highly recommend getting a copy (new or old, very little has changed over the years) of the APA Standard of Perfection. it outlines the requirements for each breed recognized by the APA, ranging from weights to wing carriage, tail angulation, feathering requirements and more.

breeding 2 entirely dissimilar breeds like a rock and a cochin, you will end up with an assortment of traits that don't match either breed description.

barred rocks and barred cochins are both barred birds, but that's where the similarities end, for the most part.

if you want a barred frizzled bird, cross 2 birds of the same breed with those colors. but if you want a barred frizzle, you're better off crossing a black frizzle with a barred. white hides too many other mutations to be a reliable cross for anything.

this is a bantam barred rock... (from feathersite)

this is a barred cochin... even tho they're the same color there's no way breeding one to the other would result in any offspring matching either parent in anything but color. yes, they would all be barred. that's it. (posted by 'strike' 4 years ago on another byc thread)

Well we have a hen of the bottom one, are you saying we cannot breed that one to the white frizzle roo?

 

[aoxa]

Look at how impressed she is with her hat!

 

[ki4got]

Quote:
white can hide a multitude of other mutations, since the mutation removes all pigment, so there's no guessing what you'd get breeding barred to white. yes you'll get barred, but who knows what else too, birchen, Columbian, red, silver, partridge, black, who knows what else.

to get just a nice barred frizzle, a black frizzle would be your best choice to put over a barred cochin hen.