The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[aoxa]

white can hide a multitude of other mutations, since the mutation removes all pigment, so there's no guessing what you'd get breeding barred to white. yes you'll get barred, but who knows what else too, birchen, Columbian, red, silver, partridge, black, who knows what else.

to get just a nice barred frizzle, a black frizzle would be your best choice to put over a barred cochin hen.

White hides everything.




You will probably end up with some this colour.. Happens if you have a dominant white over barred.

 

[Pnoah1]

white can hide a multitude of other mutations, since the mutation removes all pigment, so there's no guessing what you'd get breeding barred to white. yes you'll get barred, but who knows what else too, birchen, Columbian, red, silver, partridge, black, who knows what else.

to get just a nice barred frizzle, a black frizzle would be your best choice to put over a barred cochin hen.

So if I get a barred cochin frizzle will it still be a barre frizzle in APA mind set?

 

[Pnoah1]

White hides everything.




You will probably end up with some this colour.. Happens if you have a dominant white over barred.

Ah, I see! I find it odd that white is more dominant then black, normally Black would be a more dominant trait but for chickens it seems otherwise.

 

[aoxa]

Hey I have my total animal count! WOOOHOOO for me!

161 chickens (EEs 10, Crested EEs 3, Buckeyes 2, Silkies 31, Barred Rocks 33, SPPR 11, Frizzle 5, Layers 38, Houdans 9, CX 3, Naked Neck 10, Mixed 5, Ameraucana bantam 1)
2 geese
1 duck
4 goats
1 alpaca
3 dogs
2 cats

I really didn't expect to have that many chickens. I had my Partridge Silkies vaccinated in June, and don't know how many I have now, as I sold a few.

 

[aoxa]

Ah, I see! I find it odd that white is more dominant then black, normally Black would be a more dominant trait but for chickens it seems otherwise.

When you breed a dominant white bird to a barred rock you will get 50% barred 50% white barred

In my experience I get mostly white birds like that.. They come from my red sex links (who are carrying dominant white) bred with a barred rock rooster.

Most times if a barred rock rooster is used, you will get 100% barred chicks. Unless it's dominant white.

In your case your hen is barred? All of her males will be barred, her females will be black.. Now if the rooster IS dominant white, I have no idea what's going to happen.. I know I only did this once and the son was barred.

Yes that weirdo chick we thought was a girl two weeks ago is a boy afterall.

Father is Phoenix who is dominant white. Mother is a barred naked neck.


dad


mom

 

[jime]

Ok I have a question about broody girls.
I came from Peru and I was raise in a farm lots of different animals, any ways my dad just to breed fighting chickens (don't ask me the breed because I don't know I just know they were beautiful, to much to been putting in the ring)the girls were broody all the time and we only keep boy lock except for one that was the best and will be the flock's guard everybody will be like a happy family between hens babies and the big guy.
Now here last spring I got 4 hens /pullets two of each Light sussex and coronation sussex, they all went broody at the same time two share nest and the other two have different nest and coops.
The first babies hatch (with the sharing mammies) 3 babies there, next day one hatch i baby and the next the other another, so the first girls were out with the babies at 2 days then the next fallow and then the next this birds have 10 access to go but the thing was they all start to kill their chicks so I grab the babies and try to lock them with moms and by then moms did not want any to do with the babies and finish killing them. It was mean a crazy and sad all this in a day less than 2 hours. In the end only one chick with the two moms survive she is now a really nice coronation pullet.
The one with the two mms had a huge girl that was suppose to be a pullet but I think she was a first year hen.
I felt so sick to my stomach that I wasn't to dispose of tho lakes, I contact the breeder and her response was that I was crazy to believe that hens and chicks will survive in a communal environment and even with rooster, she was mad. Now I still have this girls they did go to molt after their babies and now are starting to lay again.
I believed that you could have everybody together, figure if my dad did it with fighting breeds why could i not do it with a more docile breed.
Now what should I do:
- Do I need a different pen for every broody girl with a run that will mean about 10 pens, and this pens will have to have runs since they will not be able to free range any more.
-Is this aggression hereditary, should i not breed form this girls any more (witch will be sad because this breeders has one of the best sussex lines)
On the other hand I had a basque hen witch was just fine with everybody she was amazing she foster 17 muscovy babies it was the cutest thing to see her trying to get bigger to put her 17 under her, obviously did not work you could see butts out of the hen all the time, she was happy with everybody there when somebody try to mess with her babies she mean business but she will leave the other girls with the babies alone.
-Where my other girls two young to know they have to be aggressive to protect the babies?
Please give me your opinions, I need o figure this out before time games again.

 

[cubalaya]

when you saw the hens trying to sit on the same eggs, you should have moved the momma hen and all the eggs to another pen. in a completely free range situation the hens will be much more protective of their own chicks but then you must worry about predators. games are much better at this in confinement. i still take my broody hen and eggs to another pen.

 

[lazy gardener]

So......I'm wondering....is it really natural for hens to molt in fall to recharge or is that the "normal" we've come to expect since we've tinkered with our bloodlines such to breed out broodiness to get those all important eggs.

If we bred for natural broodiness traits...which tend to occur in spring...would our hens molt in summer and then lay more in winter????

Has anyone manipulated their flock this way? Has anyone read anyone who has done some natural studies with a flock to try to get back to normal brooding patterns?

Just curious.
Lady of McCamley

EDITED: for spelling and clarity (hopefully

Interesting thoughts Lady Mc. It entirely makes sense to me. I wonder if Centrarchid cares to respond. He's working on a line of self sustaining Dominiques, so might have some input re: broodiness related to molting.

My girls were hatched in Feb and early March. They've all gone through at least a bit of a molt, with the RIR going through a hard molt, just now getting back some feathers, BSL going into a fairly heavy molt. EE have done a light molt, mostly beards, anterior neck and tail feathers. Obviously they didn't read the book re: the age of molting. Also, an other question to ask in relation to molting is if supplemental light is used, or any changes in nutritional status. My girls have all lost a lot of weight, for some reason, stopped eating the crumbles, though they smelled and looked fine. I just replaced with a new bag of 22% protein crumble, hoping that will help. I'm also supplementing with BOSS, cracked corn, sprouted wheat and barley. I may with-hold the seeds and sprouts for a few days to see how they do with the extra protein feed.

On an unrelated note, the loft of my coop is 4 x 8 which is closed in with an inch of insulation, windows covered with glass on north and south, 4 x 8 vent over girls favorite roost north and south, pop door under their favorite roost south. Doors and windows north and south not well sealed, so there is some ventilation around them. I'm doing DL shavings, have used permethrin and DE under litter which has obviously been scratched up. The girls are not coming out into the vinyl covered (open on the south) coop run (8 x 12) much. So, obviously they're building up some poo in the loft with smell noticeable in the morning. The poo is not capped, well scratched in. If you were me, would you clean all of the litter out (b/c of the permethrin) and start with fresh litter, or just throw a couple inches of fresh litter on top? I wonder if I should remove the glass from the south window which faces into their vinyl covered run, and perhaps close in most of the south opening of the run??? Advice? Temps down to 0F last night, high +10F today.

 

[lazy gardener]

Jime: I'm guessing that the birds your Dad had, perhaps were game chickens, or similar. These breeds have not had the broodiness bred out of them, thus probably had the instinct to take care of their chicks, and do well in a communal flock situation. I'm only thinking out loud here, so don't take my thoughts too seriously, so here goes: Just because a hen/pullet is able to sit on eggs and hatch them, doesn't make her a good mother. Here's the question: Are mothering skills in the animal kingdom instinctive or learned? Or a combination of both? Aside from keeping each broody and her brood away from the rest of the flock, what kind of management would ensure that an other murder fest does not occur in a similar situation? I'd love to hear from other flocksters re: their experiences with broodies, especially re: the circumstances that have not been successful, the successful broods, and most importantly, the hens who appeared to learn from past failures and have gone on to be successful. Breed info as well as flock dynamics would also be helpful. Follow up thought: Breeding for appropriate behavior is at least as important as breeding for SOP.

 

[delisha]

I'm having trouble with ear mites I think. Several girls are shaking their heads a lot. This has probably been answered here, but any natural treatments besides DE and wood ashes in the dust bath? I feed organic and I don't want to use chemical insecticides.

Take a q-tip and dip it in oil...wipe it on the ears..(any type of oil)

Quote: I have to disagree about seeds ..apple seeds have a place for chickens.

I posted some musing on molting earlier on another thread (Managing Your Flock) about observing some molting differences in my flock and we all had the general standard consensus that it is hormone driven and varies with each chicken...usually around 18 months for the first hard molt which usually happens in fall.

But after pondering this a bit, I'm wondering....is that really "natural" or the result of commercial breeding.

In my flock of 20 birds I am noticing molting at what is the expected 18 months/ 2 years and also a number of my 13 month olds molting. Egg count is down...I get it. Those hens are GSL, BSL, Wellie Mixes (RIR/Welsummer...one may be pure Welsummer but off colored per breeder), a couple of mutts (1st generation mix from typical commercial layers with White Leghorn roo), Wyandottes and Delawares (from breeders).

What I am pondering is how natural is the "fall" molt in hens. We all proclaim it is so their bodies can shut down, rebuild and restock for the next year....but why fall. If I were going to lose my feathers, living in the northern hemisphere, I would do that in summer not in the cold of late fall/early winter (November-December). A number of my birds are really naked. They don't seem to "mind" the cold, but then again they don't look particularly happy or healthy...just the "normal" "off-color" during molt....or is that so "normal" in fall?

So...and this is my point....I have several hens (BSL and Wellie mixes) and a Silkie that went broody in Spring....May/June. Since I like to use broodies to actually hatch chicks (amazingly the hens do a better job than I do with heat lamps...go figure!), I have 3 hens who brooded for me in Spring. They each went through a molt after brooding...another "natural" phenomenom. Those hens are all glossy and fat now, and laying eggs for me.

So......I'm wondering....is it really natural for hens to molt in fall to recharge or is that the "normal" we've come to expect since we've tinkered with our bloodlines such to breed out broodiness to get those all important eggs.

If we bred for natural broodiness traits...which tend to occur in spring...would our hens molt in summer and then lay more in winter????

Has anyone manipulated their flock this way? Has anyone read anyone who has done some natural studies with a flock to try to get back to normal brooding patterns?

Just curious.
Lady of McCamley

EDITED: for spelling and clarity (hopefully

Depending on where you live, the breed of bird, how old they are and when they were hatched, they will molt in fall and/or late spring. Most of my birds hard molt in fall and light molt in spring. They hard molt in fall so they have full thick feathers to carry them all through the cold weather.

Ok I have a question about broody girls. I came from Peru and I was raise in a farm lots of different animals, any ways my dad just to breed fighting chickens (don't ask me the breed because I don't know I just know they were beautiful, to much to been putting in the ring)the girls were broody all the time and we only keep boy lock except for one that was the best and will be the flock's guard everybody will be like a happy family between hens babies and the big guy. Now here last spring I got 4 hens /pullets two of each Light sussex and coronation sussex, they all went broody at the same time two share nest and the other two have different nest and coops. The first babies hatch (with the sharing mammies) 3 babies there, next day one hatch i baby and the next the other another, so the first girls were out with the babies at 2 days then the next fallow and then the next this birds have 10 access to go but the thing was they all start to kill their chicks so I grab the babies and try to lock them with moms and by then moms did not want any to do with the babies and finish killing them. It was mean a crazy and sad all this in a day less than 2 hours. In the end only one chick with the two moms survive she is now a really nice coronation pullet. The one with the two mms had a huge girl that was suppose to be a pullet but I think she was a first year hen. I felt so sick to my stomach that I wasn't to dispose of tho lakes, I contact the breeder and her response was that I was crazy to believe that hens and chicks will survive in a communal environment and even with rooster, she was mad. Now I still have this girls they did go to molt after their babies and now are starting to lay again. I believed that you could have everybody together, figure if my dad did it with fighting breeds why could i not do it with a more docile breed. Now what should I do: - Do I need a different pen for every broody girl with a run that will mean about 10 pens, and this pens will have to have runs since they will not be able to free range any more. -Is this aggression hereditary, should i not breed form this girls any more (witch will be sad because this breeders has one of the best sussex lines) On the other hand I had a basque hen witch was just fine with everybody she was amazing she foster 17 muscovy babies it was the cutest thing to see her trying to get bigger to put her 17 under her, obviously did not work you could see butts out of the hen all the time, she was happy with everybody there when somebody try to mess with her babies she mean business but she will leave the other girls with the babies alone. -Where my other girls two young to know they have to be aggressive to protect the babies? Please give me your opinions, I need o figure this out before time games again.

My broody's raise chicks with my whole flock. Some of them are not very good with chicks(protective and some are over protective) and I do take the chicks away and give them to other moms if they are available, or move the group if I have to. If no mom's are available I do put chicks in the brooder barn with out a mom. The chicks are healthier raised with the flock. I have 3 week chicks outside in -13 weather now. My whole flock is good with chicks except juvies. Roosters usually keep the juvies in line.