The Olive-Egger thread!

[Chickanmanfromarkansas]

I think the curvey tail on EE hens are something that shows up once in a while on them, I've got three that have taile feathers like that. They threw me for a while because I ordered all hens, I do know that hatcheries do sometimes mess up and send roosters. But all came okay at the end because they were all girls.

 

[Resolution]

Quote:
WHY on EARTH would you intentionally produce a tufted rumpless contaminated with commercial heavy breed genetics?
I'm sorry to be so frank in my question but this is without a doubt Unethical. How can you guarantee that that stock isn't going to end up in the collective gene pool?

I'm in the process of exporting S.A. stock back to Chile because most of their stock is so polluted with KFC genes. Even the Marans are carrying the KFC genes- the same genes carried by every commercial utility and industrial breed!

An EE or even an Ameraucana is understandable because of the percentage of KFC genes already present but I'm reading major red flags in this thread.

I'm all for an olive egg but please don't endanger rare and minor breeds by intentionally crossing mutually exclusive genetic stocks.

Half the people reading this are going to tell me to shut off and to each her or his own.

Good for you.

It's unethical to cross someone's stewardship stock- the rumpless tufted stock- that required thousands of generations of responsible selective breeding with anything else that isn't directly related.

That's my four cents. Sorry to stir the pot.

 

[chics in the sun]

Quote:
WHY on EARTH would you intentionally produce a tufted rumpless contaminated with commercial heavy breed genetics?
I'm sorry to be so frank in my question but this is without a doubt Unethical. How can you guarantee that that stock isn't going to end up in the collective gene pool?

I'm in the process of exporting S.A. stock back to Chile because most of their stock is so polluted with KFC genes. Even the Marans are carrying the KFC genes- the same genes carried by every commercial utility and industrial breed!

An EE or even an Ameraucana is understandable because of the percentage of KFC genes already present but I'm reading major red flags in this thread.

I'm all for an olive egg but please don't endanger rare and minor breeds by intentionally crossing mutually exclusive genetic stocks.

Half the people reading this are going to tell me to shut off and to each her or his own.

Good for you.

It's unethical to cross someone's stewardship stock- the rumpless tufted stock- that required thousands of generations of responsible selective breeding with anything else that isn't directly related.

That's my four cents. Sorry to stir the pot.

Um - I read this twice and I'm not exactly sure what you are saying. What are KFC genes? What is an SA? So you are saying we should never cross breed established breeds because the cross breeds might end up back in the gene pool? I don't get it......

 

[Goose and Fig]

Quote:
WHY on EARTH would you intentionally produce a tufted rumpless contaminated with commercial heavy breed genetics?
I'm sorry to be so frank in my question but this is without a doubt Unethical. How can you guarantee that that stock isn't going to end up in the collective gene pool?

I'm in the process of exporting S.A. stock back to Chile because most of their stock is so polluted with KFC genes. Even the Marans are carrying the KFC genes- the same genes carried by every commercial utility and industrial breed!

An EE or even an Ameraucana is understandable because of the percentage of KFC genes already present but I'm reading major red flags in this thread.

I'm all for an olive egg but please don't endanger rare and minor breeds by intentionally crossing mutually exclusive genetic stocks.

Half the people reading this are going to tell me to shut off and to each her or his own.

Good for you.

It's unethical to cross someone's stewardship stock- the rumpless tufted stock- that required thousands of generations of responsible selective breeding with anything else that isn't directly related.

That's my four cents. Sorry to stir the pot.

Um - I read this twice and I'm not exactly sure what you are saying. What are KFC genes? What is an SA? So you are saying we should never cross breed established breeds because the cross breeds might end up back in the gene pool? I don't get it......

I'm using araucanas for EEs/OEs because I don't have an araucana roo. Not like I've been able to get any of thier eggs to hatch in the last 6 months, but still....

 

[Resolution]

Kentucky Fried Chicken =KFC; South America= SA

I don't intend to be hyper critical here, especially of someone with obviously good intentions -however naive they might be.

The North American Araucana "True" has been maintained and refined by some of the best poultiers in the world. It breaks my heart to hear that people are intentionally crossing this stock to over-represented genetic stock. The NA Araucana is a New Heritage Breed.
One day there may be two, three or five different olive egg New Heritage Breeds- I just pray that none of them are tufted and rumpless. This is just astonishingly ...

It's short-sighted to say the least. People can take your eggs home and incubate them- you'd never know that your eggs have been hatched if you sell them in your local market. We have worked so hard to breed the contaminated stock out- its just blows my mind to think of someone intentionally breeding this endangered New Heritage stock - the North American "true" Araucana- its traits do not deserve to show up on ANY other breed that is not from South America. I'm just sick about it frankly.

I know of breeders in Japan with birds that lay jelly belly chartreuse eggs. They've gotten there by very disciplined selective breeding. Of course they imported blue and even green egg layers from Peru (which is all but a Japanese colony at this point) but these poultiers never attempted to breed back into the founder stock as far as selecting for traits goes- their central objective is to generate a NEW breed and to never pollute the populations of founder breeds- and in this case- so far as the South Americans are considered- we are talking about semi-species- races- critically endangered forms.

I know of a gentleman in the Pacific Northwest with the most amazing stock- phenotypically- genetically- I hope that his olive eggers set a standard - unique and with consistency- his subbreed is stable- and unique in appearance.

Can't speak much about it but I am excited that there are selectionists out there working with their imaginations and dedication- all those dedicated hours. That said, they need to have a code of ethics- a collective will to cooperate and collaborate within a guild- and that guild's central objective is to contribute something of value- to the community of poultiers and backyard chicken enthusiasts.
Let's not forget that back in the late 1800's poultiers went to crossing Malay game fowl with reddish-coloured Shanghais; brown Leghorn, Cornish, Wyandotte, and Brahma to produce the Great American cultural treasure (and now heritage breed) the Rhode Island Red.
We can be sure that many purists of the time were revolted with this selective breeding initiative and that many people detested what was at that moment in history a New Heritage breed.

The Marans has similar history with exotic Ceylon Junglefowl X Asil hybrids and Langshan genes in its blood.

But it would have been counter productive to select for traits of one of the founder breeds or races.

 

[chics in the sun]

Aren't they doing pretty much what the Japaneese did, then? They aren't breeding them back to Auracana stock and calling them Auracana's. They are calling them Olive Eggers - and most people on here always clairfy what mixes their OE's are.

I know what KFC stands for. What I am asking is what are you meaning when you are calling a line of chickens KFC? Mutts? Chickens without pedigrees? Bourgeois chickens?

I think everyone with heritage breeds are very proud of their stock, and the work it takes to maintain them. And I admire and respect that. There is a place for those breeders and chicken keepers, but the folks here are just backyard chicken owners that are doing this as a hobby, and there is a place for them, too.

 

[Resolution]

Quote:
I think I pretty much covered your questions in the last part of my last post.
KFC stands for genetically over represented chickens. The entire world's population of chickens are becoming genetically contaminated with the genes of what are incredibly productive, useful and well bred chickens. KFC does not mean anything negative.

There is no such thing as nobodies in the discipline that is poultry husbandry.
We all should be very concerned about the conservation of genetic diversity of old stock as well as the maintenance of all the wonderful KFC breeds ( which feed the world). We should all be equally concerned about the demise of wild junglefowl as well but that's too much to ask.

Don't produce stock that can be mistaken for an endangered cultural heritage breed- a treasure- that shouldn't be so hard to comprehend.
Just because you are doing this in your backyard doesn't make this any less damaging. How do you think peasants and Indians are rearing their stock in Chile?
They don't have any pure stock any longer because the KFC stock proved to be more readily available and frankly, more productive.
Now the conservationists in that country are heartbroken. They've lost a cultural treasure. Meanwhile in North America -where South American stock has been imported before genetic contamination- stewards- we are all stewards- stewards maintained these stocks - refined them- bred out undesirable traits-

Now this new generation of self-proclaimed hobbyists that are so naive as to think that what they are doing in their backyards won't have an impact on the collective stock of our poultry community- they could unwittingly destroy all the dedicated hours with fingers in their ears.

 

[Goose and Fig]

Wait a sec- isn't this the "olive egger thread"?

 

[iajewel]

Quote:
I can't agree with you more.

 

[Happy Chooks]

Resolution.........I'm pretty new to breeding and all, but some of the key factors about Araucana's is they are rumpless (sometimes), tufted (sometimes), have a lethal gene and lay BLUE eggs. So if you have a bird that looks like an Araucana but lays olive eggs, you know it's not pure, right? I've seen EE's made with Araucana's, how is this any different? If all breeds remained "pure" we wouldn't have a lot of the gorgeous birds we do today.

I realize a lot of work goes into creating these breeds, but I don't think anyone here is harming anything by "playing" on the side. We just want to see pretty colored eggs in our Easter basket. I have not seen anyone here misrepresenting their birds as something they are not. I myself plan to breed my welsummers, but I am going to play on the side. I have a welsummer/EE cross that looks just like a welsummer, but with a pea comb and beard. Do I say she's a welsummer? Of course not. She's a mutt. I don't see how it's any different with Araucana's except that you are arguing they are rare. So if they weren't rare, it wouldn't matter?