The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Yard full o' rocks]

All large fowl. RIR, white, barred, and silver penciled rocks.

My second hatch of the yr is due tomorrow....5 chicks last week, 5 more this week. All single matings so it will be unlikely if I get more than 4-5 dozen hatched this yr....if the matings are "right" that's all I should need

 

[Silver Rock]

While Javas may have been used "originally", their type is far from Rock type....I think you would be safer to select a breed whose CURRENT type is at least close to that of a Rock to avoid setting yourself back

I was only suggesting using the Java to the Black Australorp & Black Orpington in a outcross. In my opinion the Java is much closer to the Plymouth Rock in type than the Australorp or Orpington. I would definitely stay within the Plymouth Rock varieties as a outcross for the Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks with the exception of using the Dark Brahma to beef up size while not destroying the penciling. But like I said before if I was going to step out of the Plymouth Rocks as a outcross I would go with a America Class breed like the Java as a English Class breed would only add to the extra fluff and so on.

Clayton

 

[Fred's Hens]

Extra fluff is a bane of a Rock head. We've not got a tough issue with cushions. Sure slight ones appear, but we have much more trouble with ridge backs in our Barred lines. We also have over fluffed skirting around the thighs.

This week, during some Show and Tells, we looked over a really great crop of females and younger males that were bred by a partner in three batches last year. That was a learning by doing breeding year. Some great successes, but some horrid put backs as well.

As a group, I saw way, way too much fluff on the thighs, much more than my F1 outcross pullets, and fluff that shouldn't have been there on a pure XW/GSBR bird. Once these would be breeders "see" thigh fluff and are "perception trained" to recognize it, there was a serious amount of culling. We culled 80% of the flock. The 20% kept was so good, there are no concerns. Less is more. No tails on males is tough enough on this line, so thigh fluff is so not needed.

 

[DMRippy]

Quote: I know that after 2 crosses the pattern is there.... hoping a 3rd will show huge progress in the pattern. I don't think it takes YEARS and YEARS to get it back. BUT you have to keep going back to the original birds and in a way that would defeat the purpose IF you don't choose WISELY. SIZE is what we are striving for and going back to the original is counter productive if you don't cull for SIZE. Starting with the biggest birds will really help...... project anyone???? Scott we may need to talk..... later.

 

[BGMatt]

I'm betting you could use a black australop, black orpington or a barred rock

SPRs are e^b/e^b and silver, the blacks and barreds are E/E and silver....I bet you could get back to pattern with some selective culling in just a few generations. Solid black birds might be the easiest

Color would definitely suffer for a while, but that can be regained

As they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained

Barring is dominant though, so that might slow down getting back, although if you back cross to pure SPPR males it might work ok. Barred still lag behind the White Rocks size wise but not as bad as the SPPR. Australorps are small, but like the extended black idea, Orpington makes sense, yellow legs are recessive but at least that's fairly easy to get back too. Doesn't do anything about the dark shanks though. If you don't mind fighting dark leg color, what about Jersey Giants?

Still think if I were to do it I'd go with White Plymouth Rocks or Dark Brahma, either one is probably a 4-5 year project at the quickest. You never know what's hiding under the White is the big issue there so that could really open up a can of worms.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Barring is dominant though, so that might slow down getting back, although if you back cross to pure SPPR males it might work ok. Barred still lag behind the White Rocks size wise but not as bad as the SPPR. Australorps are small, but like the extended black idea, Orpington makes sense, yellow legs are recessive but at least that's fairly easy to get back too. Doesn't do anything about the dark shanks though. If you don't mind fighting dark leg color, what about Jersey Giants?

Still think if I were to do it I'd go with White Plymouth Rocks or Dark Brahma, either one is probably a 4-5 year project at the quickest. You never know what's hiding under the White is the big issue there so that could really open up a can of worms.

Matt, I think an SPR male over an excellent typed (oversized) barred female, you would rid barring in the F2s if you selected for just "females" in F1...I'm thinking "whites" might open a whole different can of worms, including barring, as Whites are sports from the barreds anyway

I think Giants would work too

 

[DMRippy]

Quote: I got nothing else to do.... need to start weighing some birds......

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Barring is dominant though, so that might slow down getting back, although if you back cross to pure SPPR males it might work ok. Barred still lag behind the White Rocks size wise but not as bad as the SPPR. Australorps are small, but like the extended black idea, Orpington makes sense, yellow legs are recessive but at least that's fairly easy to get back too. Doesn't do anything about the dark shanks though. If you don't mind fighting dark leg color, what about Jersey Giants?

Still think if I were to do it I'd go with White Plymouth Rocks or Dark Brahma, either one is probably a 4-5 year project at the quickest. You never know what's hiding under the White is the big issue there so that could really open up a can of worms.

Something else I keep in mind is that "most" Whites that are placing today are really oversized to the standard. Since birds are not weighed at the shows judges are currently placing them simply because they look so big compare to the others. I will be at the Newnan show tomorrow and will take some pix. Holly,the lady that won BB at the Sunshine classic with one of my birds will be showing a 2013 bred pullet. That pullet she won with is right at 7lbs. I bet the "whites" dwarf this bird.....we'll see tomorrow

 

[Fred's Hens]

Barred still lag behind the White Rocks size wise but not as bad as the SPPR.

Matt, while not applicable to the pattern discussion, the Barred may not be as large as the Whites, but the Barred are actually exceed the breed Standard weight call out in many cases. We have NO problem with making very large Barred Rocks. LOL The White are way over the Standard in weight, in far too many cases and I know, I know, it is a personal pet peeve of mine, but it is past time to keep saying it in public, in my view.

But your point is well taken. If your looking for size, look no farther than a White Rock. But it also be worth saying to those looking to cross in a White, be careful. The White can be hard to work with if what we old timers call the Halbach "stay white" gene is there.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

I know that after 2 crosses the pattern is there.... hoping a 3rd will show huge progress in the pattern.  I don't think it takes YEARS and YEARS to get it back.  BUT you have to keep going back to the original birds and in a way that would defeat the purpose IF you don't choose WISELY.  SIZE is what we are striving for and going back to the original is counter productive if you don't cull for SIZE.  Starting with the biggest birds will really help...... project anyone????   Scott we may need to talk..... later. 

Donna. You seem to be open to suggestions so let me know when you want to discuss. I think collectively we can make some progress in your breeding goals. Thanks