The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Beekissed]

3 Years though.. This is not a 16 week old WR.

I'd like to see pictures of a cockerel before he crows dressed out.

I want something young.

I very rarely use hens for meat.

What do you do with your old layers?

 

[Fred's Hens]

Many of today's White Rock lines have a touch of broiler parent stock in them. The "formula" for the CX type broiler is closely held, of course, but we DO know that it isn't merely a simple RockxCornish but rather 4 lines are likely kept to produce the parent stock.

Cobb is one such broiler and breeding Cobb back into the White Rock for increased size and quicker growth isn't that odd. But, rather than breeding in a terminal CX bird, it more common to use just one of the "Rock" side, parent stock birds.

Joe Emenheiser, a university livestock specialist, and an occasional poster here, used Cobb as part of creation of Blue Plymouth Rocks as well.

 

[aoxa]

What do you do with your old layers?

I sell them before they get to be too old. 2 years for the generic layers (still can provide useful to some) and 3 years for the breeders.

 

[gjensen]

You can use them for meat, but they take at least 18 weeks to get there.

Fred uses a lot of his males for meat. Maybe he can give light as to what age he finds they are a good size.

I have yet to raise any dual purpose bird that had a large amount of meat before 16 weeks.

I grew out a batch of NHs last year that reached 5 1/4lbs live weight @ 14wks. That is pretty good.

I think our expectations are too low and rooted in what we read on the internet. Thompson expected more from his Rocks then than we do now.

I am not being critical. Everyone is working with what they have to work with.

Still, it is my opinion that we raise the bar a bit. Even if it is in increments.

The amount of posts on this topic reveals an interest in the subject. Rocks are in a good place to receive this sort of interest.

 

[gjensen]

Many of today's White Rock lines have a touch of broiler parent stock in them. The "formula" for the CX type broiler is closely held, of course, but we DO know that it isn't merely a simple RockxCornish but rather 4 lines are likely kept to produce the parent stock.

Cobb is one such broiler and breeding Cobb back into the White Rock for increased size and quicker growth isn't that odd. But, rather than breeding in a terminal CX bird, it more common to use just one of the "Rock" side, parent stock birds.

Joe Emenheiser, a university livestock specialist, and an occasional poster here, used Cobb as part of creation of Blue Plymouth Rocks as well.

I would call that forward thinking.

 

[emenheiser]

I did use Cobb 500 broiler parent stock in the recreation of the Blue Plymouth Rock. For the first few years, it was normal for my AVERAGE bird to hit Standard pullet and cockerel weight at 16 weeks of age. I've slowed that down to make them more understandable to the purists who feel that the Rock described in the Standard is the pinnacle of economic performance, and there's no denying that the Rock type has improved. But I do miss that growth and feed efficiency.

I know of no White Rock breeder except one who was able to gain access to the proprietary broiler parent stock lines (no one could dream of touching the grandparents.) Last I heard that project was in limbo because the difference between dominant (broiler) and recessive (exhibition) white was causing some issues. Female color was okay, but males still had some ghost barring.

That same breeder has retained some Cobb influence in the Barred Rock line that I used to begin my Blue project, but they have been bred down to 1/8 Cobb to get the barring right, and not likely to give anyone a huge kick in growth.

Partly because I didn't have an established line to backcross to, and partly because I didn't want to lose the broiler pieces, I started putting Cobb on both sides of the pedigree once I got down to 1/4.

No matter one's views on the Cobb cross, there is an important point to be made that selection for outstanding exhibition type in cocks and hens has resulted in Rocks that are too late in their growth curve to have much if any economic utility. In one ad, E. B. Thompson claimed his cull cockerels had a plump carcass at 8 weeks. I would venture to say that the majority of exhibition Rocks, White or Barred, are barely worth the time to clean at 16 weeks. No matter what they look like at maturity, I think that's a shame.

 

[Fred's Hens]

If folks have read this thread or followed it over the past few years, they know my view on these matters and my breeding efforts to address them. Slow, slow, and even slower. It is the plague. 22 weeks for a K to reasonably fill a frying pan? Waiting 36 weeks for pullets to lay a tiny egg? All the while gorging on expensive feed?

Is this really the Plymouth Rock?

 

[lefty26]

Fred I have read all of this thread and I know how you have been trying to improve this. Have your project birds been growing quicker this year?

It is one of my goals to myself and our farm to work with rocks and help improve or take them back to what they used to be.

That is why I always message you to see if you have any birds available, as I think starting with quality birds is half the battle.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Lefty, folks have appeared pleased with the progress we have tried to make with the Barreds. It is going to continue to be a work in progress for a long time. I do not pretend to have all the answers. Barring, good barring, and faster growth seems a distant mirage in the desert sometimes. I do know what Mr Thompson reported what he did and yet? Today's Barred Rocks seem to be an entirely different breed than E. B. had. Sigh.

I've also been working on these same issues with a line of Rhode Island Reds. I'm into my 5th year with a project line of Reds. Again, it is challenging. I'll just leave it at that.

I may be in a minority, but I believe that unless improvements can be made in these "heritage" (gosh, I dislike that term) breeds in large fowl? Their future is very much at risk for anything other than exhibition hobbyists, and even among such folks, I've heard that bantams are so outpacing LF in numbers kept and bred that it is disconcerting.

 

[lefty26]

Well I am only 1 person but it's a start.I hope I I can introduce others as well and so forth.


I think the largest problem with keeping these breeds is the total disconnect from our food. I know a few people that show birds and have never eaten one of their birds but go and pay outrageous prices for poultry. So So they for example don't concentrate on breeding for true purpose characteristics. Back in in the e.b Thompson days you couldn't just go to Walmart and pick up w.e you wanted. That is why they bred birds to provide them with eggs and good supply of meat.

I wonder if maybe we are going backwards instead forward since breeders concentrate on being more pleasant to the eye, than the dual purpose ability of the birds which is why they where created?