The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Matt1616]

I hatched from a 6 yr old hen this past fall as well. Tell me something...what exactly does "lack of vigor" mean? Genetic problems? And those lie where? Within the egg and sperm of the parent animals. Yes, I realize an old egg can still be fertile and some cannot, depending upon individual genetics....which are found within the egg matter. And, yes, chicken's reproduction works very much like ours at the bottom of the bottom of things...there is an egg and it's fertilized by a sperm cell and both of these hold genetic matter that will determine what characteristics the chick will have....just like in humans and many other creatures on this earth. The basic reproductive action is all the same...egg and sperm, egg and sperm.



If the male I am using can produce viable, thriving chicks when crossed over a hatchery bird but cannot do the same when crossed over an heirloom hen, I'd venture to say it's not the male's fault or genetic issue, but the female's. Her EGGS are part of the problem as they hold her genetic material and determine if the chicks will have "active, healthy, well-balanced growth", be it because she is crossed with a particular male and their genetics form a bad combination or whatever the cause, in this case I'm thinking the female is the key to the problem.

We are talking about 2 different things here...you are using the term "not fertile" to describe "lack of vigor". "Lack of vigor" is a well known term amongst poultry breeders that simply mean that the birds have been to tightly bred and they lack strength, toughness, livability and in some cases are not viable. In a situation where there is "lack of vigor"...it is neither the male or the females fault. It is the genetics that is causing the issue. So, you are incorrect to blame the lack of vigor of pure bred/line bred poultry on the hen.

I will give you a personal experience Beekissed. 6 years ago I had 2 lines of Rhode Island Reds...they both originated from the same place 20 years prior. One of the lines had been inbred for around 20 years with no thought of having separate families. I set 93 eggs that spring out of that pen and hatched 5 chicks. I then took that male out and placed a male out of the other pen that was from the same exact line and hatched 95% out of about 75 eggs. The fact that they had been apart for 20 years and the DNA and genetics had slowly been going away from each other offered the shot of blood that I needed to get the "vigor" back. This is no theory...it is a fact. I seen it happen with my own two eyes.
I also have abandoned some other breeds and lines over the years because of "lack of vigor"... It has always been and always will be a issue with pure bred/line bred lines of poultry.

In the midst of this debate, I'm wondering if anyone has tried testing their females? Put a different cock over the standard hens and see what happens. I might try this when I have a pen free up soon. Or during breeding season next year.

If you bred the same hen to a completely different breed or even another male within the same breed that was completely unrelated the fertility and hatch rate would most likely go through the roof. I have done it several times with great success.

 

[Beekissed]

I bred a Cochin male to this female and had the exact same results as I did when I bred the heirloom male to her....two chicks made it in several hatches, the rest of the hatches were filled with the hatchery hens' progeny. Two separate males from different breeds, the hen still had poor results.

Call it lack of vigor, call it something wrong with the viability of their eggs, something is wrong here and it seems to be on the female side.

 

[seolari]

Is this a bard rock chick, its 8 weeks old.

 

[desertmarcy]

Is this a bard rock chick, its 8 weeks old.

That looks like a mixed breed of some sort, not a pure Barred Rock for sure.

 

[seolari]

That looks like a mixed breed of some sort, not a pure Barred Rock for sure.

Disappointed but thanks for your response.

 

[uphilljill]

Hatched 22 LF BR chicks last Sunday. Really pleased with the hatch rate and vigor these Roy/Fred chicks are showing. Nice fat heads and really wide legs on some of these. Also expecting the change in cockerel to help with the wing problems I had last year... Should be able to tell in a few weeks. 42 more eggs went into the incubator today.

 

[chicken pickin]

Hatched 22 LF BR chicks last Sunday. Really pleased with the hatch rate and vigor these Roy/Fred chicks are showing. Nice fat heads and really wide legs on some of these. Also expecting the change in cockerel to help with the wing problems I had last year... Should be able to tell in a few weeks. 42 more eggs went into the incubator today.

That is so great! Congrats on the hatch!

My eggs from you go into lockdown tomorrow Im so excited! Out of the 26 BR eggs 24 developed very well and will go into lockdown. Ive only candled once during this incubation so I will likely candle again tomorrow before lockdown. I need to recandle the MW eggs also but at last candling it looked like 7 were developing, though my flashlight I used wasn't too good, so maybe all 8 are good. Ill let you know how the BR did after the hatch is complete.

 

[uphilljill]

There's also a short video of chicks in the brooder here:

Chicken Pickin: Yes, please let us know how your hatch goes. I'm sure that hand delivery/pick up makes a HUGE difference with hatchability vs shipping. So glad we could meet up. Good luck with your hatch.

 

[Fentress]

Great video. thanks. I have chick envy. I do have some peeps under my first broody to set, but it will be a little while before she brings them out. And I have to work late tonight, of all the rotten luck.

 

[Beekissed]

Got another broody in the coop while I was away trout fishing. She's sitting on ? some large amount? of farmer's mix eggs, most of which are the WR...will move her tomorrow night and get a count on her eggs. My other broody that was loaded up with my choice breeder's eggs is still sitting tight and it remains to be seen if I'll get a good hatch.

I'm glad to see others are having good hatch rates on their heirloom PRs, it's encouraging!