The Welsummer Thread!!!!

[dheltzel]

What all are your reasons for crossing beautiful Wellies with other breeds? For fun? For genetic hardiness? For certain egg color? The offspring of cross-breeds won't breed true so -- not judging -- just wondering. Something to consider is hatchling mutts will be hard to re-home should an emergency occur where they might need to be placed - unless there are plans to raise the mixed offspring for meat? For myself I've kept my breeds true and relieved I did because I had to re-home several bully hens that turned out easier to re-home because they were not mixed breeds. In the city it is more of a challenge for us when it comes to finding homes for unwanted purebred cockerels let alone mixed breed males. I had to travel several counties away to find a rescue home for unwanted cockerels/roos to place a rare cockerel that was shipped to us by mistake and it would've been a tragedy to eat him! In our local feed store the back room is filled with cages from owners of beautiful purebred roos that can't find homes because of roo zoning restrictions. The mixed breed males don't have a chance in Hades of even finding a free home unless it's for someone's dinner table! We've made our flock into such personable pets that we can't eat them -- DH will do his best to find even the mean ones a home rather than see them go to a dinner table LOL!

I agree with you in principle, but I can think of 2 reasons to crossbreed:
1) for fun, to see what you get. No harm if you have a plan for the progeny. Our very best layers are the "so called" barnyard mixes. Some are such pretty birds I wish I could get them true breeding.
2) breeding project to get new colors. I created a Crele Welsummer, more commonly called a Welbar. They are definitely larger and stronger than the purebred Welsummers (I believe my Welsummers suffer from inbreeding depression, so I am not breeding them anymore). But the best part is that Welbars are 100% autosexing, no more roosters coming back from customers because I sexed them incorrectly. I also think it would be fantastic to make an Isabelle Welsummer (add the lavender or self-blue gene). Any of these breeding projects start with crosses to other breeds. Since it is planned (often out to several generations), this is obviously not the same as the random crosses you object to, but the intervening "cull" are really just barnyard mixes. I put them into out laying flock and they do quite well for themselves and us.

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Why not? It's my personal preference for one thing. Mutts can be stronger and healthier than their pure bred parents and I enjoy seeing the variety of colors in my flock.Each clutch of eggs my broody hen hatches for me show different color variations and patterns that are in their own right beautiful. Granted, nothing is much prettier than my pure Welly roosters, but my Welsummer, Buff O cockerels are just as pretty and personable without my Welsummer roosters proclivity towards being aggressive at times. I didn't buy my chickens with the plan to segregate them and breed them for genetic purity. We live on a farm. We ultimately wanted a flock of mixed breed chickens that would be heat tolerant and cold hardy and I chose Welsummers and Buff O's with those traits in mind. Our winters can be brutal and our summers unforgiving where we live

I am not breeding to sell chickens. Our flock right now is up to 31 Buff Orpington, Welsummer, Speckled Sussex pure and cross bred chickens. Our extra roosters are in a spacious bachelor pen and are treated like royalty. We do not eat our birds unless we are starving and so far that hasn't happened. The only birds I have rehomed are overly aggressive males and so far I have had no problem in getting rid of the two that I have had. It didn't bother me that one was going to the table. Not after he flew at my face one day while I was kneeling on the ground.

Perhaps things are different for city dwellers then they are for country folks. Most people around us Amish and non Amish have mixed flocks of birds. Genetic purity is something for people who are breeders strive for not for the the local general chicken keeper. If that is what floats your boat, good for you. Other breed, including mixed breeds are just as beautiful as pure bred Welsummers. 

Consider the possibilities..................

I would love for you to post some pics and share your progress on this mix. We have welsummers and so far I'm love their personalities. So inquisitive and curious. We also have jubilee orpingtons and even though they are very beautiful they seem to be a bit flighty. I wonder if crossed if they would mellow out a bit. It would be neat if the jubilee's got the welsummers personalities and dark egg laying capabilities. It would be even neater if you could darken the jubilee's eggs and get them to breed true.

 

[microchick]

Jenniferlamar70. I have this picture of two of my Welsummer over Buff O mix cockerels. These boys came out very nicely. Great personalities so far. They are good to the hens, for the most part more respectful to me than their pure bred fathers and I love their coloring. This is a picture of Dos and Trey. Primo the third cockerel has beautiful Welsummer tail feathers with the same general body color as his two brothers. This picture was taken when they were about 12 weeks old.


These boys matured VERY quickly and were crowing and covering hens at the age of 12-14 weeks unlike the Buff O cockerels who didn't start showing interest in the hens until they were 5 months old. They will take treats from my hand and so far only one has challenged me and that behavior stopped the minute I dangled him and foot ball carried him.

At 5 months these boys have HUGE combs and wattles. I'll be using a lot of vasoline this winter, LOL.

I'll be moving chicks hatched in April this weekend. I promise I'll get pictures of the pullet crosses and post them along with that hatch's cockerels.That hatching came out with completely different coloring. The Buff O rooster that fathered the first hatching had died and the most recent hatching was sired by one of two Welsummer roosters. I am surprised at what a difference that makes.

One of the reasons I have been anxious to cross the Welsummers with the Buff Os is because my Welly hens are petite girls but they lay these HUGE eggs. Every time I pick up one of them I think 'OUCH'. I'm hoping the cross hens will lay smaller eggs that are still that wonderful Welly color. I can't believe that a 4 pound hen laying such big eggs bodes well for her reproductive system in the long run.

 

[jenniferlamar70]

Jenniferlamar70. I have this picture of two of my Welsummer over Buff O mix cockerels. These boys came out very nicely. Great personalities so far. They are good to the hens, for the most part more respectful to me than their pure bred fathers and I love their coloring. This is a picture of Dos and Trey. Primo the third cockerel has beautiful Welsummer tail feathers with the same general body color as his two brothers. This picture was taken when they were about 12 weeks old. These boys matured VERY quickly and were crowing and covering hens at the age of 12-14 weeks unlike the Buff O cockerels who didn't start showing interest in the hens until they were 5 months old. They will take treats from my hand and so far only one has challenged me and that behavior stopped the minute I dangled him and foot ball carried him. At 5 months these boys have HUGE combs and wattles. I'll be using a lot of vasoline this winter, LOL. I'll be moving chicks hatched in April this weekend. I promise I'll get pictures of the pullet crosses and post them along with that hatch's cockerels.That hatching came out with completely different coloring. The Buff O rooster that fathered the first hatching had died and the most recent hatching was sired by one of two Welsummer roosters. I am surprised at what a difference that makes. One of the reasons I have been anxious to cross the Welsummers with the Buff Os is because my Welly hens are petite girls but they lay these HUGE eggs. Every time I pick up one of them I think 'OUCH'. I'm hoping the cross hens will lay smaller eggs that are still that wonderful Welly color. I can't believe that a 4 pound hen laying such big eggs bodes well for her reproductive system in the long run.

It's funny you say that about the hens. My welsummers are still very young but even though they are developing fast my hens are also very petite. So far I have 3 jubilee roosters out of the is hatch and they are huge compared to my Welsummer roosters. It's fun to see how things turn out and great in the end if it improves the breed.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I really enjoy the look of a Welsummer pullet. The Welsummers are such beautiful birds...very interesting behaviors, and can be a bit loud at times.

It is a breed that I have admired for several years, and this year I finally get to have a small backyard flock. I look forward to when they lay eggs, and I get to enjoy the fruits of their production.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I was thinking of keeping him an doing a cross between him and my jubile orps and maybe my Swedish flower hens but I'm not the best at genetics it will be my first.

Is there anything he is lacking?

Have you considered starting a small flock of Welsummers and developing your own breeding line? There's a lot to be said about that type of project....

 

[SOHC-FTW]

We'll I had 5 straight run welsummers, 3 sfh, and two jubilee orps all same age and bought same time. But 3 of my welsummers died early on so I've got the roo pictured and a hen.

I will be doing something with my sfh and orps as far as breeding but idk about the welsummers as I really haven't the room or coops for three flocks of chickens as I have an adult flock of 10 of all diffeent kinds.

Do you think he's that decent of a young roo to produce? His line was way back from green fires original stock as I was told.

 

[Sylvester017]

Why not? It's my personal preference for one thing. Mutts can be stronger and healthier than their pure bred parents and I enjoy seeing the variety of colors in my flock.Each clutch of eggs my broody hen hatches for me show different color variations and patterns that are in their own right beautiful. Granted, nothing is much prettier than my pure Welly roosters, but my Welsummer, Buff O cockerels are just as pretty and personable without my Welsummer roosters proclivity towards being aggressive at times. I didn't buy my chickens with the plan to segregate them and breed them for genetic purity. We live on a farm. We ultimately wanted a flock of mixed breed chickens that would be heat tolerant and cold hardy and I chose Welsummers and Buff O's with those traits in mind. Our winters can be brutal and our summers unforgiving where we live
So, genetic hardiness is your goal. Owners of other breeds on other BYC breed threads are doing the same thing to get hardier stock.
I am not breeding to sell chickens. Our flock right now is up to 31 Buff Orpington, Welsummer, Speckled Sussex pure and cross bred chickens. Our extra roosters are in a spacious bachelor pen and are treated like royalty. We do not eat our birds unless we are starving and so far that hasn't happened. The only birds I have rehomed are overly aggressive males and so far I have had no problem in getting rid of the two that I have had. It didn't bother me that one was going to the table. Not after he flew at my face one day while I was kneeling on the ground.
I have no problems with re-homing mean/bully chickens either. I would love to process them but DH won't eat our birds LOL!
Perhaps things are different for city dwellers then they are for country folks. Most people around us Amish and non Amish have mixed flocks of birds. Genetic purity is something for people who are breeders strive for not for the the local general chicken keeper. If that is what floats your boat, good for you. Other breed, including mixed breeds are just as beautiful as pure bred Welsummers. Yep, being city dwellers really limits our options as to flock sizes and limited to hens only. We have to travel so very far just to re-home a cockerel so we try to be extremely careful to get easily-sexed juvie/adult pullets rather than a straight-run chick.

Consider the possibilities..................

I agree with you in principle, but I can think of 2 reasons to crossbreed:
1) for fun, to see what you get. No harm if you have a plan for the progeny. Our very best layers are the "so called" barnyard mixes. Some are such pretty birds I wish I could get them true breeding.
2) breeding project to get new colors. I created a Crele Welsummer, more commonly called a Welbar. They are definitely larger and stronger than the purebred Welsummers (I believe my Welsummers suffer from inbreeding depression, so I am not breeding them anymore). But the best part is that Welbars are 100% autosexing, no more roosters coming back from customers because I sexed them incorrectly. I also think it would be fantastic to make an Isabelle Welsummer (add the lavender or self-blue gene). Any of these breeding projects start with crosses to other breeds. Since it is planned (often out to several generations), this is obviously not the same as the random crosses you object to, but the intervening "cull" are really just barnyard mixes. I put them into out laying flock and they do quite well for themselves and us. Your purpose is to create a new variety/color and to have auto-sexing identification -- although don't the Wellies already come auto-sexed as chicks per Whitemore Farms? I never could figure the reason to create an auto-sexing Welbar when the Wellies were already auto-sexed. But then there is something to be said for genetic hardiness in cross-breeding too.

I would love for you to post some pics and share your progress on this mix. We have welsummers and so far I'm love their personalities. So inquisitive and curious. We also have jubilee orpingtons and even though they are very beautiful they seem to be a bit flighty. I wonder if crossed if they would mellow out a bit. It would be neat if the jubilee's got the welsummers personalities and dark egg laying capabilities. It would be even neater if you could darken the jubilee's eggs and get them to breed true.

If I were a genetic study I'd love to breed following the breeding charts for improving type, color, production, or egg color but it is quite a challenging process and I'm just too lazy in my old age~LOL

Jenniferlamar70. I have this picture of two of my Welsummer over Buff O mix cockerels. These boys came out very nicely. Great personalities so far. They are good to the hens, for the most part more respectful to me than their pure bred fathers and I love their coloring. This is a picture of Dos and Trey. Primo the third cockerel has beautiful Welsummer tail feathers with the same general body color as his two brothers. This picture was taken when they were about 12 weeks old.


These boys matured VERY quickly and were crowing and covering hens at the age of 12-14 weeks unlike the Buff O cockerels who didn't start showing interest in the hens until they were 5 months old. They will take treats from my hand and so far only one has challenged me and that behavior stopped the minute I dangled him and foot ball carried him.

At 5 months these boys have HUGE combs and wattles. I'll be using a lot of vasoline this winter, LOL.

I'll be moving chicks hatched in April this weekend. I promise I'll get pictures of the pullet crosses and post them along with that hatch's cockerels.That hatching came out with completely different coloring. The Buff O rooster that fathered the first hatching had died and the most recent hatching was sired by one of two Welsummer roosters. I am surprised at what a difference that makes.

One of the reasons I have been anxious to cross the Welsummers with the Buff Os is because my Welly hens are petite girls but they lay these HUGE eggs. Every time I pick up one of them I think 'OUCH'. I'm hoping the cross hens will lay smaller eggs that are still that wonderful Welly color. I can't believe that a 4 pound hen laying such big eggs bodes well for her reproductive system in the long run. I, too, worried about our 4.5-lb White Leghorn laying 2.25+ oz eggs nearly every day of the week. 45% of White Legs have reproductive issues by age 4 and are used extensively in ovarian cancer research. My friend's Sexlinks were rescues and layed huge brown eggs with one dying from eggbound and the other two of unknown causes within the same year.

It's funny you say that about the hens. My welsummers are still very young but even though they are developing fast my hens are also very petite. So far I have 3 jubilee roosters out of the is hatch and they are huge compared to my Welsummer roosters. It's fun to see how things turn out and great in the end if it improves the breed.

European landrace chickens like Olandsk Dwarf, Swedish Flower Hen, Icelandics, etc, seem to have the same type of pattern in their feathers - different colors but the same flowery look to their feathers. I always mused that if left to their own breeding pattern that mixed breeds would all eventually wind up looking like "landrace" varieties.

 

[caychris]

On autosexing I do not think its always clear similar to some Cream Legbars. I got some feedstore wellies that were supposed to be sexed pullets and I ended up with a male. The distinction is not as clear sometimes.

 

[Sylvester017]

I really enjoy the look of a Welsummer pullet. The Welsummers are such beautiful birds...very interesting behaviors, and can be a bit loud at times.

It is a breed that I have admired for several years, and this year I finally get to have a small backyard flock. I look forward to when they lay eggs, and I get to enjoy the fruits of their production.

I would love to see pics of your eggs. With the speckling our Cuckoo Marans layed in her eggs it would've been better to have a Wellie for the same kind of brown or speckled eggs. We didn't like our mean Marans and had wished we had a Wellie instead for the dark eggs.