The Welsummer Thread!!!!

[EweSheep]

Sometimes we don't always know either. There is an ongoing debate about that since last year when a Holland breeder mentioned it that Nate's birds that they hatched from, their shafts were too light or too yellow. Their requirement was that the shaft should be grey in color, not white or yellow. If I was to pluck my Welsummer hens, they do have a tan line on backbone of feather and at the quill part, its grey or white.

And it would not hurt to update the book on Welsummers for further information than what they had back in 1994.

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
By "the book", I am guessing you mean the SOP. If there is anything you think needs to be changed or updated it is best to go through the breed club, but our committee also looks at recommendations by individuals. The undercolor should be slate. I think there is a lot more awareness of Wellies now, so it is normal that some of the description might be questioned. Maybe I am missing it, but I don't see where the feather shaft color is mentioned in the SOP Wellie description. If it is not mentioned I wonder where the Holland breeder came up with their info.

Walt

 

[Hens and Roos]

Quote:
By "the book", I am guessing you mean the SOP. If there is anything you think needs to be changed or updated it is best to go through the breed club, but our committee also looks at recommendations by individuals. The undercolor should be slate. I think there is a lot more awareness of Wellies now, so it is normal that some of the description might be questioned. Maybe I am missing it, but I don't see where the feather shaft color is mentioned in the SOP Wellie description. If it is not mentioned I wonder where the Holland breeder came up with their info.

Walt

this is why we picked them when DD was looking to add a 2nd breed for her 4-H poultry project, and she was the only one this year showing Welsummer at our fair. this class is by far one of the smallest at our fair

 

[EweSheep]

Quote:
By "the book", I am guessing you mean the SOP. If there is anything you think needs to be changed or updated it is best to go through the breed club, but our committee also looks at recommendations by individuals. The undercolor should be slate. I think there is a lot more awareness of Wellies now, so it is normal that some of the description might be questioned. Maybe I am missing it, but I don't see where the feather shaft color is mentioned in the SOP Wellie description. If it is not mentioned I wonder where the Holland breeder came up with their info.

Walt

The Holland breeder suggested it, as the "trademark" of the breed and has been that way for years while we were breeding them without paying attention to the feather shaft colors, quill color, etc. and when it was brought up last year in the Yahoo forum and WCNA website, there was alot of ooooooh no's when we were finding faults in leg colors (too light instead of corn yellow), white down feathers instead of slate, partridge pattern popping up, five to six or seven points in combs and no one ever gave it a thought about the hen's combs which I personally believe that the hen does have some part in adding or substracting points on their future offsprings, or some combs are too beefy and points were too triangle-r in shape, or front of comb had alot of wrinkles or folds, making the comb look heavier in front of the nostrils. Once we can make that adjustment what the Welsummer SHOULD be like the better off we would be. White feathers popping up and feather stubs still persist even in the best lines and its our duty to keep culling, making those type of genes less frequent in future generations. Once we get there in consistency and no "wild cards", we can only hope it stays that way. I know the UK and US SOP are different, like our Orpingtons, and we should be able to stand out as well. Most of us are trying to stick with the origin they came from even they have been Americanized. So we have a long ways to go to clean up our mistakes and work with what we have and do the BEST we can in selecting one.

Breeders now are trying to outcross too much with a variety of lines that would compromise the future generations. You will be seeing alot more variation popping up now and then, weird colors, etc. and some breeder will hav etheir own trademarks that would stand out a bit, like the absence of penciling in the neck feathers, or more richer tone of reddish gold neck feathers, more red hue in the chest feathers. Or heavier black penciling in the neck feathers, very distracting to say at the least. Colors, type and conformation should be balanced.

I have not been too many poultry shows but we have been getting better judges for the 4Hers that are coming out more licensed APA/ABA judges rather than just a simple 4her.

It seems like there isn't very many Welsummers in shows...how would one go about promoting it? I don't get the Poultry Press anymore but whenever one of us mention a show, I would post it in the YAhoo and WCNA (website AND FB) of location and dates.

 

[Hens and Roos]

Quote:
By "the book", I am guessing you mean the SOP. If there is anything you think needs to be changed or updated it is best to go through the breed club, but our committee also looks at recommendations by individuals. The undercolor should be slate. I think there is a lot more awareness of Wellies now, so it is normal that some of the description might be questioned. Maybe I am missing it, but I don't see where the feather shaft color is mentioned in the SOP Wellie description. If it is not mentioned I wonder where the Holland breeder came up with their info.

Walt

The Holland breeder suggested it, as the "trademark" of the breed and has been that way for years while we were breeding them without paying attention to the feather shaft colors, quill color, etc. and when it was brought up last year in the Yahoo forum and WCNA website, there was alot of ooooooh no's when we were finding faults in leg colors (too light instead of corn yellow), white down feathers instead of slate, partridge pattern popping up, five to six or seven points in combs and no one ever gave it a thought about the hen's combs which I personally believe that the hen does have some part in adding or substracting points on their future offsprings, or some combs are too beefy and points were too triangle-r in shape, or front of comb had alot of wrinkles or folds, making the comb look heavier in front of the nostrils. Once we can make that adjustment what the Welsummer SHOULD be like the better off we would be. White feathers popping up and feather stubs still persist even in the best lines and its our duty to keep culling, making those type of genes less frequent in future generations. Once we get there in consistency and no "wild cards", we can only hope it stays that way. I know the UK and US SOP are different, like our Orpingtons, and we should be able to stand out as well. Most of us are trying to stick with the origin they came from even they have been Americanized. So we have a long ways to go to clean up our mistakes and work with what we have and do the BEST we can in selecting one.

Breeders now are trying to outcross too much with a variety of lines that would compromise the future generations. You will be seeing alot more variation popping up now and then, weird colors, etc. and some breeder will hav etheir own trademarks that would stand out a bit, like the absence of penciling in the neck feathers, or more richer tone of reddish gold neck feathers, more red hue in the chest feathers. Or heavier black penciling in the neck feathers, very distracting to say at the least. Colors, type and conformation should be balanced.

I have not been too many poultry shows but we have been getting better judges for the 4Hers that are coming out more licensed APA/ABA judges rather than just a simple 4her.

It seems like there isn't very many Welsummers in shows...how would one go about promoting it? I don't get the Poultry Press anymore but whenever one of us mention a show, I would post it in the YAhoo and WCNA (website AND FB) of location and dates.

maybe starting at the 4-H/FFA level would be one way to expose people to the Welsummer chicken, you are right about not seeing many. Of course ours decided to start molting so the kids are not showing at the Portage WI poultry showing coming up towards the end of Sept, we are hoping to go and look around to see what it there.

 

[harryof47]

Quote:
It sometimes happens and you know I have heard it called that.

Walt

Opa, I like your comment on this.

 

[Happy Chooks]

Walt............thank you for clarifying it. It certainly makes sense on it being a DQ for the males. I've studied the standard, but there is still some debate in certain areas. Like the tail fluff of the roosters - Some say gray fluff is okay as long as it's not white and some say no fluff at all. I'm still learning, so I really appreciate your input.

Robin.......No, there aren't many welsummers out there at shows. I went to the fair and looked at the poultry. I saw the most HORRID examples of welsummer hens with ribbons! I was so shocked, they were that awful! I will never show my birds though, it's just not worth the risk of disease to my flock to me.

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
By "the book", I am guessing you mean the SOP. If there is anything you think needs to be changed or updated it is best to go through the breed club, but our committee also looks at recommendations by individuals. The undercolor should be slate. I think there is a lot more awareness of Wellies now, so it is normal that some of the description might be questioned. Maybe I am missing it, but I don't see where the feather shaft color is mentioned in the SOP Wellie description. If it is not mentioned I wonder where the Holland breeder came up with their info.

Walt

The Holland breeder suggested it, as the "trademark" of the breed and has been that way for years while we were breeding them without paying attention to the feather shaft colors, quill color, etc. and when it was brought up last year in the Yahoo forum and WCNA website, there was alot of ooooooh no's when we were finding faults in leg colors (too light instead of corn yellow), white down feathers instead of slate, partridge pattern popping up, five to six or seven points in combs and no one ever gave it a thought about the hen's combs which I personally believe that the hen does have some part in adding or substracting points on their future offsprings, or some combs are too beefy and points were too triangle-r in shape, or front of comb had alot of wrinkles or folds, making the comb look heavier in front of the nostrils. Once we can make that adjustment what the Welsummer SHOULD be like the better off we would be. White feathers popping up and feather stubs still persist even in the best lines and its our duty to keep culling, making those type of genes less frequent in future generations. Once we get there in consistency and no "wild cards", we can only hope it stays that way. I know the UK and US SOP are different, like our Orpingtons, and we should be able to stand out as well. Most of us are trying to stick with the origin they came from even they have been Americanized. So we have a long ways to go to clean up our mistakes and work with what we have and do the BEST we can in selecting one.

Breeders now are trying to outcross too much with a variety of lines that would compromise the future generations. You will be seeing alot more variation popping up now and then, weird colors, etc. and some breeder will hav etheir own trademarks that would stand out a bit, like the absence of penciling in the neck feathers, or more richer tone of reddish gold neck feathers, more red hue in the chest feathers. Or heavier black penciling in the neck feathers, very distracting to say at the least. Colors, type and conformation should be balanced.

I have not been too many poultry shows but we have been getting better judges for the 4Hers that are coming out more licensed APA/ABA judges rather than just a simple 4her.

It seems like there isn't very many Welsummers in shows...how would one go about promoting it? I don't get the Poultry Press anymore but whenever one of us mention a show, I would post it in the YAhoo and WCNA (website AND FB) of location and dates.

I have no idea what the Holland breeders credentials are. There is a ton of misinformation on this site. If it was the trademark of the breed, it would say that in the SOP.
It may be a good idea to read the oldest info you can find on Wellies and use some of that to work your way through the problems and to also get a better idea of what is true and what is conjecture.....or worse. The problems you describe are common in at least half of the other LF breeds with colored feathers other than white or black. The Marans standard here in the US is different than the French standard...as an example of differences. The French change their Standard far more often than we do here. It does not have to be exactly the same. It just has to make sense.

Promotion: As noted here 4H is always a good place to start. I have seen very successful breed promotion with owners spending the time educating and promoting them to the judges. The rest is promoting like any business would do. You have to increase the interest in some way. Some people are very good at that. Find one if you can.

Walt

Walt

 

[faykokoWV]

Quote:
I'm guessing these are the chicks you hatched from my birds? None of mine were slow to feather, but I'll definately keep a watch out for it in the future. I haven't gotten a lot of feedback yet on how the offspring look so while its not good news, it is something that I'm glad I'm aware of. This year I had both roos in the pen, so I'm not sure which is the sire. Next year I will have two pens and hopefully it will help me better identify who is throwing what traits on both the hens and the roos.

 

[tazcat70]

Quote:
I'm guessing these are the chicks you hatched from my birds? None of mine were slow to feather, but I'll definately keep a watch out for it in the future. I haven't gotten a lot of feedback yet on how the offspring look so while its not good news, it is something that I'm glad I'm aware of. This year I had both roos in the pen, so I'm not sure which is the sire. Next year I will have two pens and hopefully it will help me better identify who is throwing what traits on both the hens and the roos.

Umm yes.

I had horrible luck with hatching any but yours.

I only have the three and so it could be a fluke.

I am sure that he will turn out absolutely gorgeous, and then I will be looking forward to naked bum chicks.

The pullet is a cutie.