The Welsummer Thread!!!!

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

I believe the Dutch did not develop the golden duckwing or the silver duckwing Welsummers; rather, these were developed in the UK and/or Germany. To my knowledge, the Dutch recognize but one color: the "regular" rusty-red/brown type that we have. I once had some of the golden duckwing bantams, which were nice, but gave them up. These birds came from German imports via Canada.
The German type is quite a bit different from the Dutch/UK type. The German birds are larger (somewhat reminiscent of RIRs but more rotund) with a much lower tail carriage than the Dutch/UK birds. German type Welsummers are common in Scandinavia and--I believe--France. There was quite some discussion after we had them recognized by the APA as to which type to go for; originally, we adopted the British type in the standard, but when people in Canada (German immigrants with German type birds) objected, the standard was changed in a sort of compromise: higher tail carriage than German birds but lower than the Dutch/Brits. This switch from our original type was not a wise move, in my opinion. The egg shell color of the British/Dutch lines was also much darker (and more uniform) than that of the German type (lighter color and a high incidence of dark spots or speckles). Therefore, I find it curious that people sometimes find the Welsummer eggs to be "too dark"--as the dark egg was what was originally desired.
I also find that the German birds have a smaller comb, which is especially noted in cock birds, and the hackle (and male saddle) color tends to be somewhat darker. The breast color in the German standard also requires a different marking for males.
What I have chosen is obvious: the UK/Dutch type and dark eggshell color, but watching egg size, pepper (stippling) [which sometimes tends to become to coarse and almost like lacing], and stubs (especially in males) along with white in the tail/flight feathers in males. The last problem is best dealt with by using two-year-old males that are still solid. I have also seen birds placed in champion row with a very poor back angle; rather than being horizontal, birds have a sloping back along the lines of the Minorcas or Andalusians, which should be a major fault. These are merely my own observations and opinions, and others may certain differ. Anyway, happy New Year to you all and good luck with this year's hatch.

 

[Mudsow]

The girls are loooking like "birds of prey" these days more than chickens.

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Royce, your so-called rose comb Barnevelders are obviously a cross between a golden-laced Wyandotte and a Barnevelder (base color is too light for a Barnevelder, and the single-laced patterns is another giveaway). Pretty birds, though, but nothing I would breed from unless you just want them for a barnyard flock. I hope you didn't get them from somebody claiming they were Barnevelders...?

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

The picture shows a very faulty stippling/peppering pattern. Stippling is far to coarse, limiting on lacing. Sorry. Not a breeding pullet.

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Robin, I did NOT sell a lot of birds; in fact, I dealt with only 7 or 8 people. I regularly swapped with Lowell and Ron Nelson in Wisconsin (both superior poultry keepers and now deceased), and our original lines all came from the same flocks, 2 flocks originating in the UK (I was fortunate enough to secure two incredible cock birds from an Englishman in Oregon [he has requested that he remain anonymous] (who had very nice British stock, very nice type and wonderful eggs, and Lowell got one of the cock birds to get new blood into his flock). He raved about the offspring after using that bird, and my experience was similarly positive, as was Ron Nelson's (who received some of the F-1 birds from both Lowell and me). There is too much misinformation about the breed in this country, including facts about line characteristics etc. I have tried birds from Ideal, and they do not look like anything in the flocks we (Ron, Lowell, and I) had/have: much too dark, off balance, and poor layers of pitiful eggs), assuming that the 5 birds I got 2 years ago are representative of what they offer. Sandhill has birds from Ron Nelson (and I also believe, from Lowell's flock, though there should not be much difference between the two.
While I have not sold many Welsummers, I have given eggs to 4H kids for free, and I have no idea what they have done with them. Perhaps that is how my name has come up as a salesperson. Again, I am not selling birds or eggs indiscriminately; nor will I do that in the future.

 

[Tailfeathers]

Royce, your so-called rose comb Barnevelders are obviously a cross between a golden-laced Wyandotte and a Barnevelder (base color is too light for a Barnevelder, and the single-laced patterns is another giveaway). Pretty birds, though, but nothing I would breed from unless you just want them for a barnyard flock. I hope you didn't get them from somebody claiming they were Barnevelders...?

Well howdy Bjorn! Haven't seen or talked with you in a coon's age. Glad to see you're still alive and kickin!

WRT my "so-called" RC Barnies, I'm not exactly sure what the parentage was with my original start of the project but I would guess you are correct in that it was a GLW. I have some 3rd generation birds now that are looking pretty good. They're double-laced and the coloration is much more of a bay red than a yellow-golden.

No, I didn't get them from somebody claiming they were Barnevelders. Besides, I know that Barnies don't have a RC. They are something I am developing. I have no idea whether there will be any interest in them once I'm done but I'm gonna continue to work with them and once I think they're "show ready", I'll post some more pics.

Now, let's see if I can post this with this new fangled BYC stuff...

God Bless,

 

[Happy Chooks]

The girls are loooking like "birds of prey" these days more than chickens.

Now THOSE are some nice yellow legs!

 

[Happy Chooks]

Hello Bjorn - nice to see you on here!

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge with us.

 

[EweSheep]

Robin, I did NOT sell a lot of birds; in fact, I dealt with only 7 or 8 people. I regularly swapped with Lowell and Ron Nelson in Wisconsin (both superior poultry keepers and now deceased), and our original lines all came from the same flocks, 2 flocks originating in the UK (I was fortunate enough to secure two incredible cock birds from an Englishman in Oregon [he has requested that he remain anonymous] (who had very nice British stock, very nice type and wonderful eggs, and Lowell got one of the cock birds to get new blood into his flock). He raved about the offspring after using that bird, and my experience was similarly positive, as was Ron Nelson's (who received some of the F-1 birds from both Lowell and me). There is too much misinformation about the breed in this country, including facts about line characteristics etc. I have tried birds from Ideal, and they do not look like anything in the flocks we (Ron, Lowell, and I) had/have: much too dark, off balance, and poor layers of pitiful eggs), assuming that the 5 birds I got 2 years ago are representative of what they offer. Sandhill has birds from Ron Nelson (and I also believe, from Lowell's flock, though there should not be much difference between the two.
While I have not sold many Welsummers, I have given eggs to 4H kids for free, and I have no idea what they have done with them. Perhaps that is how my name has come up as a salesperson. Again, I am not selling birds or eggs indiscriminately; nor will I do that in the future.

I'm lapping up all your information! Thanks, Bjorn!

Somehow and somewhere word does get around about your birds and there was so little information regarding where your original flock came from and what you had done and what you had eliminated when they just didn't come out like you wanted them to be.

I am disappointed with Sandhill's stock...they aren't what they used to be. Once they leave the breeder's flock, without any background information and heavy culling, all things started to look downhill from there. Best example is Estes Hatchery with Calicowoods and Ideal Hatchery did with Lowell Barber's birds (if that is correct information, they didn't buy it directly from Barber himself but from a buyer that SAID he bought them from Mr Barber).

I would love to add your comments of the origin of the breed in the WCNA!

 

[Baptist1611]

grew up with a few wellies... My brother is a huge fan of them... But he doesnt have any chicks anymore... I may have to try and get some when we get our new coop built