There are shows, and then there are shows...

[Birch Run Farm]

Quote:
Professional,

You make it sound like rare breeds should not be bothered with. Anyway, I am still waiting for a ribbon to be pinned on my 'obscure' breeds. Maybe when the judges are more familiar with them that will happen.

You and a few others seem to have a knack for making unfounded assumptions, and twisting my words to mean something that they're not. Maybe that's because you find my stance on the matter distasteful yet true, and you don't care to face the reality, or maybe it's just that you can't quite wrap your heads around it fully. I'm not sure which. Either way, it is far from true that I think that rare breeds should not be bothered with. On the contrary, many of the breeds I enjoy are the rarer ones. As one last example, at a recent show which hosted the Polish Breeders national meet, a woman entered her nice little pet chicken, Buttercup, a Buff Laced Polish. She was awarded Reserve Variety Buff Laced. Not because she has an outstanding exhibition animal, but merely because there was very little competition. Three Buff laced, I believe, but I could be wrong on the exact number, but it was very low. So she received a second out of three, by default, as there were really no exhibition quailty specimens of her variety there. Now this being a national meet for the Polish Breeders Club, they of course sponsored awards, and this woman's hatchery pet chicken received the trophy for RCH Buff Laced. She is understandably proud of her little pet, and is now online advertising it as THE 2010 National Reserve Champion Buff Laced Polish. That bird would not stand a chance in a show with any serious competition, I've seen it. Now maybe to her children, friends and neighbors, she has something really impressive there, but to any serious exhibitor, she's just a fake. She brought home a trophy due to circumstances, not because her bird is a quality representative of the breed. The poor soul just doesn't understand what happened, but do you think she's also telling folks that her National Reserve Champion was given that designation simply because it was in the right place at the right time, and won 2nd out of three at one show? By comparison, I won BB and RB in my breed at the same show, with quality competition from two other serious breeders with a dozen birds. It wasn't a national meet, so no trophies were awarded. Which do you think is the more meaningful win and the better quality bird?

By saying I have a 'knack for making unfounded assumptions' I have to assume you have found that in more posts I have made? When I see someone like you, who hides behind a vague internet identity it seems to give such a person the idea that they can fling insults, bully and be rude to others. Not very professional to me but that's the reason people like you troll, so they can be rude. I simply commented that your statement on rare breeds sounded to me like YOU don't like them. That should indicate to you that what YOU said wasn't clear. Instead, you hide behind a curtain and get nasty. Well, aren't you something!

Further, Polish are not rare, so your little Polish pet story is pretty lame. I will clarify further and say that I do not like your imperial attitude so far. If you want to trash me publicly like you did with your statements you better expect I will be unhappy. You are in no way, professional, but rather a coward.

 

[Pathfinders]

I saw a situation recently where a person brought some birds to a large show (over 3,000 birds) one of which was obviously a hatchery bird. It was a variety that was not in the Standard, and is one that a big hatchery has "created" to sell more birds. That bird was the only one entered in that variety, and as such, won BV.

The exhibitor was obviously a novice, she was in the aisle feeding birds right next to the judge and clerk as they were judging. I walked up and gently pointed out to her that we don't stand in the aisle when the judges are working (and then found a rope to hang across the aisle.) She was surprised, and obviously brand new to showing. I didn't speak to her about her hatchery bird winning BV. But later I asked the judge about it, and he said he placed it in order to not disillusion her, which I understand to a point, but had I been the judge I might not have done so. I certainly would have written on the cage tag "Variety not in Standard" or somesuch. But I'm not a judge, so can't speak to it directly.

I do wish I had had a chance to speak to her later, to talk to her gently about what varieties are in the Standard, and encourage her to find a breeder from whom to purchase some better birds. But I didn't see her again, not even at coop out (she must have been a local, and I had to leave for a long drive.)

 

[Pathfinders]

Quote:
Actually, I don't think Don is selling Buckeyes this spring. I saw him at Congress this past weekend (where we discussed my Buckeyes), and he said he won't be showing until this fall, so I presume he won't have birds for sale until then at the earliest.

But it's certainly not a bad idea to get on his list if you want Buckeyes. Or join the breed thread here and talk to some of the breeders who are selling birds this year (including me, natch.)

FWIW...

 

[Professional]

Quote:
That's a problem that we have in the fancy too, a lack of seeing the big picture. Unfortunately, exactly what he DID is to disillusion her. Now she feels that she has a show bird. Wait until she enters under another judge who does take a little time to try to educate her. She'll then be crushed, after having a winner, and getting her hopes up at the last show. I like your approach better. BTW, it's not that I think that nonstandard breeds and varieties should not be exhibited. On the contrary, I think that they should, and be placed, to the best of the judge's ability given that he has no standard to guide him. That's how we intoduce them to the judges and to the fancy, but that's no reason not to educate someone who obviously needs it.

 

[Professional]

Quote:
I agree, but in my example, it's not so much an issue of making money. Yes, this individual will sell a few chicks at swap meets for a few dollars, and you can bet she'll use her hype to try to impress any ignorant customers. Hers is really a child-like pastime, not an attempt to make some real cash, or if it is, her aproach to it is severely lacking. My overall concern is the spread of misinformation and her creation of an illusion about what a proper show bird is. We need to educate the public about what exhibition poultry really is, the hard work and effort that goes into breeding a line of true show quailty birds. We don't need someone who spreads the word and gives people the false impression that any hatchery pet bird can be THE 2010 National Reserve Champion anything, when it isn't even a quality example of the breed.

 

[seedcorn]

1) I agree winning at sanctioned show is more valuable than county fair.
2) Judges are human, to know every standard for every breed.......good luck.

To the buyer, know the standard, know what you want, make your own decisions. Chicken people are like fishermen. A 4" fish suddenly becomes this 3' monster that took all their strength and aptitude to land....

(side note, why I shudder everyone tells me "it's __________ line.")

It's my chicken, I'll decide what I want, I suggest, everyone do the same. But to buy based on ribbons, awards, never makes sense to me.

 

[cgmccary]

flyingmonkeypoop: am one who is guilty of showing bad birds. I have shown a couple bad birds before when the original bird moulted so I had to use a backup or something and I am often surprised at how some judges place the poor quality birds. That is understandable. I've had them to break wing feathers right before a show or some other catastrophe. It seems rude not to show up at all if you have some substitute.

Oh, about winning and selling eggs and all, does anyone remember the "SQ black stars" from eggbid a few years ago, makes me laugh just thinking about it.

That's rich & makes me laugh. I guess anything will do to make the sale.​

 

[Pathfinders]

Personally, I'd rather scratch an entry than bring a poor bird. But that's just me...

 

[iluvmychicks]

Personally, I'd rather scratch an entry than bring a poor bird. But that's just me...

I couldn't agree with you more, but you are a conscience breeder that takes great pride not only in your birds but you good name

This is a bit off topic but what are your thoughts on the term "show quality"? I'd love your feelings on this over used word......

Shari​

 

[Pathfinders]

Quote:
I couldn't agree with you more, but you are a conscience breeder that takes great pride not only in your birds but you good name

This is a bit off topic but what are your thoughts on the term "show quality"? I'd love your feelings on this over used word......

Shari

Oh gosh, that's one of those terms that is SO overused at this point that it's almost devoid of meaning. It ties back into this thread, as there are shows, and then there are shows, you know? Personally, I don't feel a bird can be considered "show quality" until it has reached a certain level of maturity so that it can be evaluated. I think the idea of "show quality chicks" is worthless. There's no guarantee that any chick will mature to be a show quality bird. You can purchase chicks or hatching eggs from show quality parents, certainly. But no chick or hatching egg can be considered show quality, IMO. And there's no guarantee that two SQ birds will throw all SQ offspring, very unlikely in fact. There are always going to be some birds that have to be culled, that's the nature of the beast.

So basically, I feel it's one of those terms that gets slung around a lot, and one has to do one's homework before accepting that a SQ bird really is SQ. If I'm considering buying birds from someone, I want to see pictures. If they're young birds, I want to see the parents. I also like to see show results from breeders (which reminds me I need to update our website, heh heh), and I want to see rather consistent placements. Of course we all have our off days/weeks/months when showing, but someone who places regularly and has done so for a while is likely someone who can claim SQ birds. And I'm not talking county fairs here, I'm talking sanctioned APA/ABA shows. Wins from a county fair can't be considered for SQ in my book, unless the birds in question also win at a sanctioned show, ideally more than once. But that's just me, and I'm picky...

Just how I see things.