Thin and/or Porous Shells

[HeatherKellyB]

I have a 13 month old Midnight Majesty Marans (Hoover's named Marans Mix) hen named Mally. She lays big beautiful dark brown eggs (occasionally) and is the only dark brown egg layer in her flock. Since she started laying, she's laid a lot of very rough and porous eggs and a lot of thin/soft shelled eggs. I wouldn't be exaggerating by saying that she's laid more of these eggs than she has laid nice beautifully shelled eggs. A few weeks ago I noticed that she was unwell and apparently uncomfortable, so I put her in a wire dog crate and had her to sleep indoors enjoying the comforts of a little bit of AC. I thought the heat had taken it's toll on her because she was open beak breathing, was wet from the bottom of her beak down to her chest, pacing around erratically, and overall stressed. I set up a roost that was maybe 1.5 inches from the floor, made her a mash with cold water (my birds LOVE mash and have it every night), gave her a calcium citrate +vitD, and left her water. The next morning, she was back to normal. She had laid an egg from this extremely low roost and it was all over the place. The very thin shell was on the opposite side of the egg contents. I continued to give her the calcium citrate + vit D for 4 more days. The next 2 days she laid thin and soft shelled eggs and then a normal egg.
With this and the fact that she's dealt with egg shell issues for her entire egg laying career (?), how do I proceed? She was fed Purina Flock Raiser as a chick and I mixed in Nutrena Hearty Hen once she began laying. Eventually I switched her to Nutrena Hearty Hen exclusively but there was no difference in her egg shell quality. Recently, I've been mixing the layer feed with Purina Flock Raiser again. I've always offered oyster shell on the side and I've witnessed her eating some occasionally. I don't know what to do as I don't think it's healthy for her to get Calcium Citrate +Vit D on a regular basis, but I really don't know what to do. I feel like I need to do something before I find her in an emergency situation. I'm hoping to get opinions from the experienced, knowledgeable, and educated folks here. I appreciate you taking the time to read this and for anything you may be able to add. Thank you

 

[azygous]

You did the proper thing when you found her in obvious distress. You possibly headed off a much worse scenario.

I have a hen like yours. Spring before this last one, she got herself into trouble laying two eggs consistently per cycle. It didn't take long for one to get stuck inside since there isn't enough calcium usually in the shell gland for two eggs at a whack.

I had her on daily calcium citrate + D3 for a month before she started to produce one normal egg per cycle. Since then, a good seventeen months, she's been producing one normal egg per cycle, and she lays regularly. (She's an EE) But almost all her eggs have calcium "pimples". I haven't needed to give her calcium except for once or twice when she would spend way too long in a nest. Once she produced a normal egg, the calcium was stopped.

These hens of ours need careful watching. There is obviously something out of whack in their reproductive systems that include poor calcium absorption and a tendency to have laying issues. Just keep the calcium supplement handy and pop a pill into her if you suspect her beginning to have a problem.

Keep up daily calcium until the eggs appear normal, then stop. Only resume again if she appears to start having problems.

 

[Perris]

Azygous has given you great advice. You may also find this page from Manitoba useful
https://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/l...eggs-and-your-small-flock-of-laying-hens.html

 

[Sunshine_Chick]

Azygous has given you great advice. You may also find this page from Manitoba useful
https://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/l...eggs-and-your-small-flock-of-laying-hens.html

 

[HeatherKellyB]

You did the proper thing when you found her in obvious distress. You possibly headed off a much worse scenario.

I have a hen like yours. Spring before this last one, she got herself into trouble laying two eggs consistently per cycle. It didn't take long for one to get stuck inside since there isn't enough calcium usually in the shell gland for two eggs at a whack.

I had her on daily calcium citrate + D3 for a month before she started to produce one normal egg per cycle. Since then, a good seventeen months, she's been producing one normal egg per cycle, and she lays regularly. (She's an EE) But almost all her eggs have calcium "pimples". I haven't needed to give her calcium except for once or twice when she would spend way too long in a nest. Once she produced a normal egg, the calcium was stopped.

These hens of ours need careful watching. There is obviously something out of whack in their reproductive systems that include poor calcium absorption and a tendency to have laying issues. Just keep the calcium supplement handy and pop a pill into her if you suspect her beginning to have a problem.

Keep up daily calcium until the eggs appear normal, then stop. Only resume again if she appears to start having problems.

Thank you so much. I am always so grateful for the knowledge you share. I'm so happy to see that you replied. Thank you so much!
About 3 months ago Mally was laying 2 eggs a day as well. Normally one would super rough and dark brown and the other would be rough, incredibly thin, and a really washed out almost ashy looking brown. I do have one light brown egg layer in her flock but she was laying very early morning at that time, plus, the color was nothing near her creamy brown. It was Mally's and this finally explains that. I am so grateful that she was able to sort that out without intervention. Next time (if it happens again), I will start her on Calcium Citrate + VitD.
Another oddity I found was the rough/porous eggs will usually float within a week of being laid. I don't make a habit of the "float test" but I just happened to boil one of her eggs and noticed it. I have since tried it with other eggs she's laid like this and they all do this. I'm guessing the shell's poor quality is so porous and allows far more air and whatever else in.
Mally did not lay today but she did the past two days. One has a pimple like you mentioned and the other one is a bit textured but nothing like what she's laid before. She seems healthy otherwise. She's a big girl. I do worry about her crop as she's always had a large saggy crop, but it hasn't caused any problems yet. I'll definitely keep a close eye on her and give her calcium if she gives me reason to. Thanks again!
Here's a picture of her eggs from yesterday and the day before.

 

[azygous]

Those eggs are beautiful. Your hen is very young, and maybe she will outgrow this. My hen, Ethel the EE was around three when her issue first cropped up. It was another BYC member that first clued me into the use of a calcium supplement for reproductive issues many years ago.

I don't completely understand how calcium works to regulate the reproductive system of hens, but I use it on any hen of any age that is exhibiting a reproductive issue. It helped to regulate Ethel's egg cycle, and I've used it very successfully on one of my geriatric hens that still lays occasionally and gets an egg stuck inside, resulting in vent prolapse.

I consider calcium such an important item of my chicken first aid supply, I keep a bottle of it in the run at all times. Any hen that is in the nest for an extended period gets a tablet popped into her beak on the spot.

 

[Sunshine_Chick]

Reading & learning so thank you! How much calcium/vit D are y'all using? Seems like I should buy a bottle for the emergency kit. I have a buff orpington who sits in the nest box for a long time. Don't know how old she is. I found her in my pool one day nearly 3 years ago. She was the first chicken I'd ever touched & now I have 3 chickens. The other 2 are EE & 1 lays blue & the other green. I am so lucky that each lays a different color - it's beautiful, but also helpful for keeping an eye on whose doing what.

 

[rosemarythyme]

I handle my birds with calcium needs a slightly different way, as some don't seem to want to eat oyster shell or do not take in enough to meet their needs. I give birds who need a boost a private breakfast of fermented or wet feed with some oyster shell mixed in. Once they eat it (usually takes a minute), they're free to go. Frequency and amount of oyster shell varies, but I'd start with about 1/4 tsp in 1 Tbsp of feed, 2-3x a week. If that's sufficient, you can reduce the frequency to maybe 1x a week and see how she does, and adjust from there.

 

[HeatherKellyB]

Reading & learning so thank you! How much calcium/vit D are y'all using? Seems like I should buy a bottle for the emergency kit. I have a buff orpington who sits in the nest box for a long time. Don't know how old she is. I found her in my pool one day nearly 3 years ago. She was the first chicken I'd ever touched & now I have 3 chickens. The other 2 are EE & 1 lays blue & the other green. I am so lucky that each lays a different color - it's beautiful, but also helpful for keeping an eye on whose doing what.

I can't remember the dosage so I'll have to check after daylight. I purchased a bottle of Calcium Citrate with added Vitamin D from the human vitamin isle. Some folks use Tums and I have used that as well, but the calcium citrate with vit D works better and faster. I give any pullet or hen having issues a whole tablet. It's not advisable to give them a calcium boost long term because the excess calcium can cause problems with their kidneys (the reason nonlayers/cockerels/roosters shouldn't eat layer feed). Best wishes with your girls. I love the story about your first bird! That's truly a one of a kind story <3 How has your hens egg shell quality been?

 

[HeatherKellyB]

I handle my birds with calcium needs a slightly different way, as some don't seem to want to eat oyster shell or do not take in enough to meet their needs. I give birds who need a boost a private breakfast of fermented or wet feed with some oyster shell mixed in. Once they eat it (usually takes a minute), they're free to go. Frequency and amount of oyster shell varies, but I'd start with about 1/4 tsp in 1 Tbsp of feed, 2-3x a week. If that's sufficient, you can reduce the frequency to maybe 1x a week and see how she does, and adjust from there.

Thank you for sharing! This seems like something I can incorporate easily with any hen or pullet that cause concern. I'll certainly try this. Mally is shy and will stand back to wait for the others to indulge first. The first few times I tried to hand feed her Tums, every single one of her flockmates got a piece of Tums, except for Mally. It's hard to believe she 2nd hen in charge, but I guess she's really always been more reserved than any other chicken I know. The only change from her moving up the pecking order is that she no longer allows anyone to run over her. Other than spending too much time in the nesting box, and erratic/stressed behavior (like the episode I mentioned in the initial post), what other things should cause me to be on high alert with Mally or any other hen or pullet?