Thin shelled eggs

I'll say!

Mine have been doing very well on the previous feed - until the past month or so, when I started a new bag of the same feed. When I contacted the feed manufacturer, I got blown off. Whether or not their feed was at fault (still might have been a seasonal or management issue - i.e. my fault), I won't support a company that doesn't respect its customers. Supposedly a good feed, formulated for laying hens - but mine started having a problem while eating it, so when I got no satisfaction, to quote Mick, I went elsewhere to get what I need
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I see that you are in the Winston area and are a vet. Will you be treating chickens? We are in the Clemmons area.
 
Okay, so it's possible that the hen in question is low on calcium? We have 17 hens. Our 5 Dominiques were the first to molt. Nearly a month before the rest. Then it was the Buckeyes (4) and RIR's (4) all started a few days from the other. The last to molt were the Buff Orpingtons. With the hens all molting at differing times, it would make it extremely difficult to feed some layer ration and the molting ones non-layer ration. I guess that we would need to build alternate housing for the hens that are going through molt to accomplish this. Is that what others do with their hens?

Also, are you suggesting that I offer yogurt free choice and that the hen that seems to be deficient in calcium will supplement itself? It is only one hen I believe that is laying the thin shelled egg. We get several colors of brown eggs. Some are the classic color of brown egg you see pictures of while some are sort of mauve and about 4 a day are a very blond shade of brown. It is one of the blond colored eggs that occasionally has the thin shells. It doesn't happen every day. Maybe a few days a month. But it is still worrisome. We even had a blond wrinkled shelled egg once. I'm beginning to think that possibly, this hen has some sort of internal issue with its shell gland? Most of our other eggs have pretty hard shells. Even our family members that we have given eggs to have commented on how hard the shells are compared to store bought eggs. Some have pretty tough membranes that are hard to tear through when you crack them open. Could I presume that the blond egg with shell quality issues may be coming from one of the Buff Orpingtons? I'm figuring that the lighter eggs are coming from the lighter colored hens. We also get about 4-5 blond eggs a month that have double yolks.
 
Okay, so it's possible that the hen in question is low on calcium? ... With the hens all molting at differing times, it would make it extremely difficult to feed some layer ration and the molting ones non-layer ration. I guess that we would need to build alternate housing for the hens that are going through molt to accomplish this. Is that what others do with their hens?

Also, are you suggesting that I offer yogurt free choice and that the hen that seems to be deficient in calcium will supplement itself? It is only one hen I believe that is laying the thin shelled egg. ... It doesn't happen every day. Maybe a few days a month. But it is still worrisome. We even had a blond wrinkled shelled egg once. I'm beginning to think that possibly, this hen has some sort of internal issue with its shell gland? Most of our other eggs have pretty hard shells. ... We also get about 4-5 blond eggs a month that have double yolks.

It's possible that this hen needs more calcium than the others, or that she's not as efficient at absorbing the available calcium as the others. Shell gland issue? An overblown possibility, I suspect, particularly if the hen doesn't consistently produce abnormal shells. Much more likely for there to be a problem with calcium intake (e.g., with loose feeds, the hen picks out only her favourite things and leaves the mineral additives behind) or with absorption of calcium from the gut. (In fact, that would be my bet.)

One of the limitations of experimental feeding studies from which daily nutrient requirements are determined is that they involve groups of animals. That's good, in that we quickly learn what the average animal needs, or nutrient intake ranges between which most animals will remain healthy or producing well (or whatever other variable is being studied). It's not so good, however, when it comes to determining the specific needs of the individual animal, particularly one who doesn't fit the statistical norm.

For example, in domestic animals of the mammalian persuasion, we sometimes talk about "easy keepers" (fatties) and "hard keepers" (skinnies). These are individuals who need relatively less (fatties) or more (skinnies) calories than are recommended for their breed, height, weight, build, age, activity level, stage of growth/gestation/lactation, etc. in order to maintain a healthy weight.

When it comes to calcium, some lactating mares and cows develop lactational tetany or milk fever (sudden drop in blood calcium) while others in the same herd do not - even though all are fed the same ration, which is formulated to provide the recommended daily nutrient requirements for lactation in that size animal. Why?

Only The Shadow Knows.

A herd or flock - or church choir, for that matter - is made up of individuals, each one a little different from the others.

So, start with the recommended daily nutrient requirements (which should be provided in a well-formulated ration) for that species, size, production category, etc. - but don't stop there. Also watch each individual in the herd/flock for signs that something different is needed in that individual. That's easy for most of us backyarders, not so easy or downright impossible for a large production outfit, but we're not talking about them.

Best I can offer from here is to see if providing this hen with a palatable and bioavailable source of supplemental calcium, such as yoghurt, makes any difference to her shell quality.

If she's well used to being picked up, then you can economise by feeding her an ounce or two of yoghurt separate from the other hens. But if picking her up would stress her, then let them all have some. It's simply an experiment that you'll run for a week, at most. Not something you'd want to continue, or should need, indefinitely. It's your own little feeding study.

Along the same lines, feeding the molting hens a different ration or otherwise separating them during the molt may be too stressful on them during an already metabolically stressful period, for no great benefit that I can see. Keep it simple.

As for feeding the yoghurt free-choice, I wouldn't. For one, they'll eat their fill because they like it and it's novel (they're chickens - i.e. like little kids when it comes to novelty), not just because one or more of them may need it. For another, when I've been too liberal with offering my hens milk or whey, they have diarrhoea for a day or two afterwards. Not ill; just messy.
 
Okay, so it's possible that the hen in question is low on calcium? We have 17 hens. Our 5 Dominiques were the first to molt. Nearly a month before the rest. Then it was the Buckeyes (4) and RIR's (4) all started a few days from the other. The last to molt were the Buff Orpingtons. With the hens all molting at differing times, it would make it extremely difficult to feed some layer ration and the molting ones non-layer ration. I guess that we would need to build alternate housing for the hens that are going through molt to accomplish this. Is that what others do with their hens?

Also, are you suggesting that I offer yogurt free choice and that the hen that seems to be deficient in calcium will supplement itself? It is only one hen I believe that is laying the thin shelled egg. We get several colors of brown eggs. Some are the classic color of brown egg you see pictures of while some are sort of mauve and about 4 a day are a very blond shade of brown. It is one of the blond colored eggs that occasionally has the thin shells. It doesn't happen every day. Maybe a few days a month. But it is still worrisome. We even had a blond wrinkled shelled egg once. I'm beginning to think that possibly, this hen has some sort of internal issue with its shell gland? Most of our other eggs have pretty hard shells. Even our family members that we have given eggs to have commented on how hard the shells are compared to store bought eggs. Some have pretty tough membranes that are hard to tear through when you crack them open. Could I presume that the blond egg with shell quality issues may be coming from one of the Buff Orpingtons? I'm figuring that the lighter eggs are coming from the lighter colored hens. We also get about 4-5 blond eggs a month that have double yolks.
There are a number of things that govern egg quality and egg shell quality.

Calcium, Protein, Phosphorus, Vitamin D, Fats, Magnesium all can control the quality of the egg and shell.
If your feeding a cheaper low protein feed that doesn't contain animal protein and has a lot of synthetic protein and your feeding a good bit of treat that could be your problem. Then again if for feeding a good bit of treats (and or the free ranging) that can also throw nutrition off.


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To be honest I don't feed a layer type feed to any of my birds.
I feed a good game bird feed that is around and supplement with oyster shells for the layers.
 
Thank you Chris King and Chris09 for your advice. I wish I knew exactly which hen is laying the thin shelled eggs. I just can't figure it out. I believe it is one of the 4 Buff Orpington hens we have, but beyond that it is anyone's guess. I can never seem to catch them at the moment of laying the egg to find out. There is only one BO that will allow you to hold it. She is the biggest hen we have. The others act as though they think they are heading for the stock pot. All squawks and flapping. Not pet birds at all. We have been supplementing the layer ration with a game bird feed to increase the available protein for the molting birds. Maybe that lowered the total available calcium in the mixed ration to affect the hen in question. Although, now that I think about it, this has happened before anyone even started to molt.

Anyway, thanks again for your help. I'm going to read through all of the replies to my thread again and decide what to do from there.
 
Do you have free choice oyster shell out there? And is the game bird feed labeled for egg production or is it a grower ration? Maybe just having the oyster shell in a more obvious location Do you have a really dumb bird who just won't eat it? Nutritional needs will vary in different individuals, and some few hens may just lay thin-shelled eggs. Mary
 

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