Those who need help in sexing peafowl

[Rosa moschata]

This entire thread has been an excellent example to illustrate the frustration that ensues when someone tries presenting facts to disagree with a person whose arguments are based on personal beliefs -- i.e. an objective argument against a subjective one. It reminds me of when I tried asking why peafowl breeders didn't try to combine colors, which was answered by repeating the dogma that it wasn't possible. It reminds me of posts here that in any way mention evolution, which draw responses from people who refuse to acknowledge that it occurs because they personally prefer the creation explanation. In this case, we have a young man who has decided that his pea named Thor is a male, and a lot of people who disagree. Like the other topics, this isn't a debate to be won by the "most convincing" argument -- the truth will present itself in due time, regardless of what he or everyone else thinks. I don't agree with his conclusion, but I know that his conclusion is not likely to be swayed by the opinions of others, and he's determined to prove others wrong. Well, that's a healthy attitude when "the opinions of others" say he won't succeed in a task, but not for something like identifying the sex of a dimorphic species of bird. However, egging him on will just make him frustrated. When Thor has reached the age of having 100% adult plumage, the truth won't be able to be hidden.

 

[margaret8]

This entire thread has been an excellent example to illustrate the frustration that ensues when someone tries presenting facts to disagree with a person whose arguments are based on personal beliefs -- i.e. an objective argument against a subjective one. It reminds me of when I tried asking why peafowl breeders didn't try to combine colors, which was answered by repeating the dogma that it wasn't possible. It reminds me of posts here that in any way mention evolution, which draw responses from people who refuse to acknowledge that it occurs because they personally prefer the creation explanation. In this case, we have a young man who has decided that his pea named Thor is a male, and a lot of people who disagree. Like the other topics, this isn't a debate to be won by the "most convincing" argument -- the truth will present itself in due time, regardless of what he or everyone else thinks. I don't agree with his conclusion, but I know that his conclusion is not likely to be swayed by the opinions of others, and he's determined to prove others wrong. Well, that's a healthy attitude when "the opinions of others" say he won't succeed in a task, but not for something like identifying the sex of a dimorphic species of bird. However, egging him on will just make him frustrated. When Thor has reached the age of having 100% adult plumage, the truth won't be able to be hidden.

Ok lays his first egg!!

 

[zazouse]

Thor has pretty much reached her adult plumage, peacocks on the other hand can take a few years and go threw many changes.

 

[Rosa moschata]

Well, when Thor has reached the age when peacocks get their first "obviously male" feathers and still hasn't gotten them, the matter will be settled -- unless he can figure out some other explanation to maintain his conclusion as being correct. It's not like that tactic hasn't been used before by others who refuse to "let go" of disproved ideas.....

 

[casportpony]

For me it's not just about sexing peafowl, it's horses, ducks, dogs and math (remember the square root of negative 1?). We aren't the only one he does this with, I believe he got detention for doing something similar with one of his teachers.

-Kathy

 

[Rosa moschata]

You ever think that posting contentious things here was a means of entertaining himself? And if so, responding merely encourages the behavior?

 

[MinxFox]

We did reach the point several times to where we dropped the arguing and agreed to just wait it out, but generally Birdrain liked to throw out something controversial again such as new photos as "proof" or something that would get us talking again.

Most of us have or have had a peahen that looks almost just like Thor and has exhibited the same "male" features such as a few striped feathers. We have watched these hens grow and lay eggs, so we have good proof but it is all what you want to make it. Of course this thread was started with him wanting to sex others peafowl, but when you sex other's peafowl people need evidence of your own sexing of your peafowl, and when you can't do that with a bird at the age that Thor is and especially the variety Thor is, then you need to wait a while before you dive into making a topic like this. All of my first topics when I was getting started with peafowl were on the UPA forum and here, but they would be questions...I just looked back to my old peafowl topics on here. Not counting the topics I made showing new photos of my peafowl or sharing a neat peafowl related article I found, all of my first topics were questions. I learned a lot and from there and looking at other people's questions and watching other topics, I started learning how to sex peafowl and all sorts of things. I read a lot of peafowl related things before I joined BYC, but I knew that didn't mean I knew all there was to know especially since many members had been into peafowl for years.

 

[casportpony]

You ever think that posting contentious things here was a means of entertaining himself? And if so, responding merely encourages the behavior?

To a certain degree, yes, but that doesn't really explain why he got so upset today. As adults we should know better and probably shouldn't encourage him, but there is an evil sickness in me and I can't stop, lol.

-Kathy

 

[new 2 pfowl]

RM! it's so nice to have a calm, sensible, and logical voice pop up here (none of us are that calm anymore).

Of course Birdrain cannot be swayed from his subjective opinion about Thora, and of course it is likely that our objections only serve to provoke him further.

But you are missing the fundamental nature of this thread; it is, in all regards...


It has been a futile exercise, as you point out, in trying to convince someone who refuses, for whatever reason, to be convinced.

 

[MinxFox]

The real question is: Do you think Birdrain will come back?

Will we ever know the ending to the Thor Chronicles???

Was a moderator really contacted to shut this down or does it just take this long to process a request?