Those who use an "All Flock" feed, PLEASE help me decide on a feed!

[Brooks_]

What you buy depends a lot on what's available where you shop, and especially what's fresh, by mill date!

I agree with this. One will likely not go wrong by choosing the feed that consistently has the best combination of protein, freshness, and price.

 

[RoyalChick]

@RuffIedFeathers I hope you don't mind me jumping on your thread. I am in a similar position. I have been using Scratch and Peck with grub protein but they are having out of stock issues and I would love pellets if possible (which they only do for layer feed).
I would like higher protein because I feel like layer pellets at 16% are sort of the minimum for production efficiency - mine clearly prefer more protein if they can get it!
There are a couple of 'all flock' feeds that I am looking at and I would love everyone's perspective on these - in particular whether feeding such high levels of protein is OK and also whether the higher Niacin levels that make it a complete feed also for ducks are a problem for the chickens. They are both all flock feeds for mixed flocks (with chickens, ducks and geese). @U_Stormcrow - I would particularly value your opinion.

The two I am considering (nutrution info below from Chewy website) are:

Dr. Pol High Protein 28% Poultry Pearls Complete Bird Feed​

and

Kalmbach Feeds All Natural 20% Flock Maker Pellets Poultry Feed​

---

This is the Dr Pol guaranteed analysis

Guaranteed Analysis​

Crude Protein	28.0% min
Crude Fat	4.0% min
Crude Fiber	5.5% max
Lysine	1.7% min
Methionine	0.6% min
Calcium	1.25% min
Calcium	1.75% max
Phosphorus	1.0% min
Salt	0.25% min
Salt	0.75% max
Vitamin A	6,500 IU/lb min
Vitamin D	2,200 IU/lb min
Vitamin E	30 IU/lb min

---

And this is the Kalmbach analysis

Guaranteed Analysis​

Crude Protein	20.00% min
Lysine	1.0% min
Methionine	0.50% min
Crude Fat	3.25% min
Crude Fiber	4.5% max
Calcium	0.75% min
Calcium	1.25% max
Phosphorus	0.65% min
Salt	0.20% min
Salt	0.70% max
Vitamin A	8,000 IU/lb min
Vitamin D	2,000 IU/lb min
Vitamin E	30 IU/lb min

​

 

[Sally PB]

@RoyalChick, do you have a mill date on the Kalmbach feed? That's what I feed my chickens. My last bag lists Lysine at 1.1% and Methionine at .55%. I think mine was milled last September, so not very fresh. Just wondering if they've changed their formulation.

All of my birds had a heavy molt last fall. Two of them had bare backs from rooster attention (more a feather issue than rough rooster; none of the others had that), and everyone grew in a gorgeous set of feathers.

 

[RoyalChick]

@RoyalChick, do you have a mill date on the Kalmbach feed? That's what I feed my chickens. My last bag lists Lysine at 1.1% and Methionine at .55%. I think mine was milled last September, so not very fresh. Just wondering if they've changed their formulation.

All of my birds had a heavy molt last fall. Two of them had bare backs from rooster attention (more a feather issue than rough rooster; none of the others had that), and everyone grew in a gorgeous set of feathers.

I haven't tried it yet - the analysis is off the Chewy website.
There are two different Kalmbach Flock Maker - this is the higher protein one. Could that be the difference? What protein % is the one you have?

 

[HollowOfWisps]

I haven't tried it yet - the analysis is off the Chewy website.
There are two different Kalmbach Flock Maker - this is the higher protein one. Could that be the difference? What protein % is the one you have?

Here is the nutritional analysis from Kalmbach's website. I always go to the manufacturer for nutritional analysis rather than relying on Chewy's information. I have found on many occasions Chewy's nutritional information to be wrong although just slightly it is still enough to make me always go to the manufacturer for that information.

 

[Sally PB]

There are two different Kalmbach Flock Maker - this is the higher protein one. Could that be the difference? What protein % is the one you have?

I have the 20%.
1044 (a company number to identify the product...?)
Kalmbach 20% All Natural Flock Maker Crumble

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@RuffIedFeathers I hope you don't mind me jumping on your thread. I am in a similar position. I have been using Scratch and Peck with grub protein but they are having out of stock issues and I would love pellets if possible (which they only do for layer feed).
I would like higher protein because I feel like layer pellets at 16% are sort of the minimum for production efficiency - mine clearly prefer more protein if they can get it!
There are a couple of 'all flock' feeds that I am looking at and I would love everyone's perspective on these - in particular whether feeding such high levels of protein is OK and also whether the higher Niacin levels that make it a complete feed also for ducks are a problem for the chickens. They are both all flock feeds for mixed flocks (with chickens, ducks and geese). @U_Stormcrow - I would particularly value your opinion.

The two I am considering (nutrution info below from Chewy website) are:

Dr. Pol High Protein 28% Poultry Pearls Complete Bird Feed​

and

Kalmbach Feeds All Natural 20% Flock Maker Pellets Poultry Feed​

---

This is the Dr Pol guaranteed analysis

Guaranteed Analysis​

Crude Protein	28.0% min
Crude Fat	4.0% min
Crude Fiber	5.5% max
Lysine	1.7% min
Methionine	0.6% min
Calcium	1.25% min
Calcium	1.75% max
Phosphorus	1.0% min
Salt	0.25% min
Salt	0.75% max
Vitamin A	6,500 IU/lb min
Vitamin D	2,200 IU/lb min
Vitamin E	30 IU/lb min

---

And this is the Kalmbach analysis

Guaranteed Analysis​

Crude Protein	20.00% min
Lysine	1.0% min
Methionine	0.50% min
Crude Fat	3.25% min
Crude Fiber	4.5% max
Calcium	0.75% min
Calcium	1.25% max
Phosphorus	0.65% min
Salt	0.20% min
Salt	0.70% max
Vitamin A	8,000 IU/lb min
Vitamin D	2,000 IU/lb min
Vitamin E	30 IU/lb min

​

I have not had coffeee yet, I apologize if this is unintelligible. I stayed up WAY WAY too late last night, after a long day of work on the barn (muscle cramps).

The science says that a number of things - disease resistance, egg size, egg frequency, rate of weight gain, and (particularly when fed to young chicks) even feed efficiency. But the improvements are tiny (measurable, but ghenerally not noticeable, typically 1-3%) when going from 16% cp to 20% CP. They are even smaller when going from 20% CP to near 30% CP. So its just not cost effective for most birds to feed the higher CP feed in most cases. Additionally, there is concern with waist protein contributing to excess N in their poops, usually as ammonia.

and if you have a mxed flock with ducks or geese, those very high protein levels can contribute to to rapid development, leading to angel wing.

Since the Met and Lys levels are so similar, for a typical flock, assuming they are at the same price point, I'd feed the Kalmbach though the Pol's is technically superior. If I were raising meaties or game birds or turkeys? The Pols'. If I could seperate flocks? I would do exactly as I'm doing right now - I'd feed my hatchlings on the Pol's (assuming similar price points), until about 8-12 weeks, then feed the adults the Kalmback.

If I had lots of hatchling birds and lots of space from a big spring order? I'd split the order in half, raise half on Kalmback, half on Pol's to 8 weeks, then compare cost and condition and report back to BYC your findings. I know the science (at least a little), still building the experience.

 

[RoyalChick]

I have not had coffeee yet, I apologize if this is unintelligible. I stayed up WAY WAY too late last night, after a long day of work on the barn (muscle cramps).

The science says that a number of things - disease resistance, egg size, egg frequency, rate of weight gain, and (particularly when fed to young chicks) even feed efficiency. But the improvements are tiny (measurable, but ghenerally not noticeable, typically 1-3%) when going from 16% cp to 20% CP. They are even smaller when going from 20% CP to near 30% CP. So its just not cost effective for most birds to feed the higher CP feed in most cases. Additionally, there is concern with waist protein contributing to excess N in their poops, usually as ammonia.

and if you have a mxed flock with ducks or geese, those very high protein levels can contribute to to rapid development, leading to angel wing.

Since the Met and Lys levels are so similar, for a typical flock, assuming they are at the same price point, I'd feed the Kalmbach though the Pol's is technically superior. If I were raising meaties or game birds or turkeys? The Pols'. If I could seperate flocks? I would do exactly as I'm doing right now - I'd feed my hatchlings on the Pol's (assuming similar price points), until about 8-12 weeks, then feed the adults the Kalmback.

If I had lots of hatchling birds and lots of space from a big spring order? I'd split the order in half, raise half on Kalmback, half on Pol's to 8 weeks, then compare cost and condition and report back to BYC your findings. I know the science (at least a little), still building the experience.

Thank you!
Mine is a small flock of absurdly spoiled pets - so the cost differential is less of an issue for me than the health and enjoyment of my flock. Also, I suspect the different wastage from pellets vs crumble will be similar to the increase in cost of the pellet feed!
What you say about the improvements in health being very small is interesting.
I think I will give the Kalmbach a try.

 

[Luckyt21]

I use Purina's Flock Raiser for everyone, it's been good, and we never feed a layer type feed here.
What you buy depends a lot on what's available where you shop, and especially what's fresh, by mill date! A good 20% protein all-flock diet is a good choice, look at dating and the nutritional profiles. Pellets are nice except for chicks, but the FR only comes in crumble here, so it's what we have been using.
Mary

Good information. I have never thought to look for a mill date on feed bags, but I will now!! Where do you typically find it on the bag?

 

[Brooks_]

Good information. I have never thought to look for a mill date on feed bags, but I will now!! Where do you typically find it on the bag?

Usually on the bottom bag seal or the nutrition tag.