Thoughts on corn in poultry feeds.

[Criticalicious]

Before the availability of commercial species-specific feeds, how did chickens feed themselves? By eating bugs/beetles & scratching around behind the cows, picking out the undigested corn kernels from their manure. Worked then, should work now.

Perhaps but I doubt if those chickens lived as long or as well as they do now.

 

[centrarchid]

Perhaps but I doubt if those chickens lived as long or as well as they do now.

They did. With advent of feeds and switch to confining birds more, the effort has been to match what the quality forages could provide.

 

[Folly's place]

Again, a game bird, or an 'old time' hen, didn't produce 300+ eggs per year!!!
And, 'old time' farms were more diverse than any suburban back yard, with other animals and their feed available.
We aren't comparing apples to apples here.
Commercial feeds should be complete and balanced as fed, for the critters listed on the label. Ingredients will vary, but the assay should hold up as complete, or somebody is failing at the production side.
Manufacturers add 'pretty colors' because consumers buy the stuff!
Mary

 

[rebrascora]

Disclaimer: I feed my birds a mix of grains from the local mill, layer pellets, CORN and all house scraps (including milk, spaghetti, rice etc) The geese especially love corn.
I understand the idea of a complete formulated diet but how many of US eat one of those every day? Lol.
That being said, I have also seen many posts over the years here from people "warning" others that corn will make chickens too fat leading to them not laying, having liver damage and (presumably) dropping dead. No idea where this comes from. You would think that chickens would have gone extinct a long time ago if every chicken eating corn on a farm died, but whatever.

I am one of those people warning about the use of corn or scratch or grain mix feeds fed ad lib 24/7. In the olden days some corn or scratch would be thrown out on the ground for the birds to clear up and they would burn off the surplus calories foraging for whatever else they could find. The problem arises when people pen their birds and give them access to a feeder containing grain mix feed where they can pick out the carbohydrate rich grains and eat as much of them as they like.
Corn as part of a formulated feed is not in itself a problem provided that the chickens eat a balanced ration. Giving too much extra corn or scratch grains as a treat through the winter when they are less active and not burning the calories can lead to obesity and a dietary imbalance which risks liver damage and reproductive disorders. Many people would not notice if their chickens were getting fat.

My neighbour's chickens suffered this fate. They were probably getting 2/3 layer pellets and 1/3 scratch daily.... not mixed.... the pellets were in a feeder and the scratch thrown down. The birds were poor layers and had frequent problems with soiled butt feathers and eventually he asked me to cull them. The layers of yellow fat inside them were really shocking with most of their internal organs encased in it and livers that just fell apart when you tried to get hold of them. They were all heavier breeds. He had previously had hybrids and sex links that coped better with this diet but I do think that the scratch treats had gradually increased in proportion over the years.

Anyway, my point is that it is not the corn itself that is the problem but the proportion of it that the bird eats and their activity level. If we sit at the table all day and eat as many carbohydrates as we want and don't exercise much we will likely become obese. It is the same with chickens. A formulated pellet fed ad lib will not make them obese because the balance of carbs and protein and fibre fills them up before they get too many calories.
So in my opinion, the things to take into consideration when feeding a whole grain mix or giving extra corn or scratch are:-
How much feed is given....ie. rationed daily allowance or ad lib
How the feed is provided.... ie a feeder where birds can select particular components or scattered on the ground or made into a wet mash or fermented and fed via a pan
The breed of the birds.... smaller active/flighty birds like leghorns that will burn more calories than heavier more sedate breeds like Orpingtons or Sussex which will be more prone to obesity
The management of the flock ie penned with restricted space or free range where extra calories can be burned off.
Weather conditions/time of year.... winter weather and shortness of day will probably restrict the amount of calories burned... may be compensated for by calories burned to keep warm in cold weather, but if the coop is heated that would be negated.

It is therefore not a simple matter of saying corn or scratch is bad or grain mix feeds can be harmful but they can be if used incorrectly and it is easier in my opinion to provide a pelleted formulated feed ad lib and perhaps offer a very small amount of scratch as a treat and know that all your birds are getting a reasonably balanced diet every day.

 

[Ra_]

I only mix some cracked corn in my bird's food when it's very cold. I use scratch grains, which is mostly corn nowadays. I wish I could afford to buy organic.
I also give them a little fresh corn a few times a week as a treat.

 

[Folly's place]

There's no reason to think that 'corn helps them stay warm'. They do best on a balanced diet all year, with maybe some added goodies.
Mixed whole grain diets are a known problem in caged birds and pet rodents. They will pick out the yummy stuff and suffer issues from malnutrition as a result. Hens can do the same thing! Being fat isn't the same as being healthy!
Mary

 

[Kiki]

I am one of those people warning about the use of corn or scratch or grain mix feeds fed ad lib 24/7. In the olden days some corn or scratch would be thrown out on the ground for the birds to clear up and they would burn off the surplus calories foraging for whatever else they could find. The problem arises when people pen their birds and give them access to a feeder containing grain mix feed where they can pick out the carbohydrate rich grains and eat as much of them as they like.
Corn as part of a formulated feed is not in itself a problem provided that the chickens eat a balanced ration. Giving too much extra corn or scratch grains as a treat through the winter when they are less active and not burning the calories can lead to obesity and a dietary imbalance which risks liver damage and reproductive disorders. Many people would not notice if their chickens were getting fat.

My neighbour's chickens suffered this fate. They were probably getting 2/3 layer pellets and 1/3 scratch daily.... not mixed.... the pellets were in a feeder and the scratch thrown down. The birds were poor layers and had frequent problems with soiled butt feathers and eventually he asked me to cull them. The layers of yellow fat inside them were really shocking with most of their internal organs encased in it and livers that just fell apart when you tried to get hold of them. They were all heavier breeds. He had previously had hybrids and sex links that coped better with this diet but I do think that the scratch treats had gradually increased in proportion over the years.

Anyway, my point is that it is not the corn itself that is the problem but the proportion of it that the bird eats and their activity level. If we sit at the table all day and eat as many carbohydrates as we want and don't exercise much we will likely become obese. It is the same with chickens. A formulated pellet fed ad lib will not make them obese because the balance of carbs and protein and fibre fills them up before they get too many calories.
So in my opinion, the things to take into consideration when feeding a whole grain mix or giving extra corn or scratch are:-
How much feed is given....ie. rationed daily allowance or ad lib
How the feed is provided.... ie a feeder where birds can select particular components or scattered on the ground or made into a wet mash or fermented and fed via a pan
The breed of the birds.... smaller active/flighty birds like leghorns that will burn more calories than heavier more sedate breeds like Orpingtons or Sussex which will be more prone to obesity
The management of the flock ie penned with restricted space or free range where extra calories can be burned off.
Weather conditions/time of year.... winter weather and shortness of day will probably restrict the amount of calories burned... may be compensated for by calories burned to keep warm in cold weather, but if the coop is heated that would be negated.

It is therefore not a simple matter of saying corn or scratch is bad or grain mix feeds can be harmful but they can be if used incorrectly and it is easier in my opinion to provide a pelleted formulated feed ad lib and perhaps offer a very small amount of scratch as a treat and know that all your birds are getting a reasonably balanced diet every day.

 

[centrarchid]

Corn in the shell (not cracked or ground) form they can consume in large amounts even after sated on a complete feed. The added intake of high energy density food allows for more energy to process through cold nights. It is easy to calculate they go into night with more calories to burn by having the additional crop fill. This does not mean the birds are physiologically warmer which some people may or may not be implying.

I can get the same results by getting the otherwise full birds to eat live meal worms just before going to roost. They will eat live meal worms even when showing no interest in even the best feed or shell corn.

 

[RoosterML]

Hello GreenMountainEric.
A bit off topic but while you're here....
I used to be able to buy a fishmeal based feed here produced by a local supplier.
I can't find such a feed here now and what I use is entirely grain and vegetable based.
Fish provides all 8 of the essential amino acids that make a complete protein suitable for chickens. This feed also contained corn which I understand is most useful for providing kerotin which is required for nail, spur and feather growth, apart from it's protein and carbohydrate content.
I'm keen on the chickens here remaining omnivorous so I feed them fish or meat three times a week.
My question is, why don't feed producers make feeds with fishmeal?

X2 what the heck is this all vegetarian feed all about?? Only my guess but I suspect nutrients from corn or other plant based product is less expensive compared to fish/animal nutrients. Also I would think more spoilage of feed with fish/animal base. Again just a guess so take it for what its worth. In the mean time I'll keep sharing my seafood with the chooks. Last night leftover flounder fillets for them.

 

[Molpet]

X2 what the heck is this all vegetarian feed all about?? Only my guess but I suspect nutrients from corn or other plant based product is less expensive compared to fish/animal nutrients. Also I would think more spoilage of feed with fish/animal base. Again just a guess so take it for what its worth. In the mean time I'll keep sharing my seafood with the chooks. Last night leftover flounder fillets for them.

I think some of it is finding organic fish. I was getting turkey feed with organic grains and fish or crab meal.. they couldn't sell it as organic because of the non organic animal meal
Some of it is people are silly and think/ want their birds to be vegetarians