Thoughts on worming schedule? Mite/lice prevention?

[kmom08]

Good morning everyone. I have a few questions as I'm always trying to learn the best prevention and maintenance so I can be prepared. Some of you have been raising chickens for many many years. So your advice is greatly appreciated.

My last flock was a breeze. Purchased at 11 months old and the only problem we had was with egg yolk periontitis in an older hen and mosquitoes/fowl pox one time while living in Florida. No lice or mites fortunately. I think we just got lucky as first time chicken owners.

This is my first time raising chicks, and My new flock has already been through a corid treatment for coccidiosis. They are currently 13 weeks old. I'm wondering what everyone does for worm and mite/lice and cocci prevention. With the last flock I just gave them a pumpkin with the seeds about 3 times a year and never had worms or coccidiosis.

For mite and lice prevention I have always used diatomaceous earth in the chicken house, run and through my entire yard. Especially in the hot months I've always cleaned the poop from their house every couple of days and rake the poop from the run daily into a compost pile in the corner of their run to keep flies and odor down.

Is this enough to prevent? Or should I have a schedule for worming prevention? Also are there wormers medications that won't affect their eggs once they start laying?

Thank you in advance.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

With the last flock I just gave them a pumpkin with the seeds about 3 times a year and never had worms or coccidiosis.

Pumpkin doesn't work as wormer... did you do fecal floats to confirm before or after counts? Tape worms and large round worms are the only ones that will EVER be seen in droppings (and then maybe only under heavy load), as all others stay living in the intestines and only their microscopic oocysts (eggs) will pass. PLEASE... if you do treat with pumpkin this time around... get before and after floats and report your results back here... tag me with @ in front of my user name. I seek to know the TRUTH not an old wives tale... and so far NOBODY who "treats" worms with pumpkin or DE is willing to... My offer is to pay for half... There is already clinical studies showing DE ineffective as a wormer. I truly mean no ugliness and my desire is to help people not to give them a false sense of security just because they don't understand biology and don't "see worms".

Also coccidia are in every chicken poo... they are ONLY a problem when too many of the microscopic oocysts have been ingested. It can happen to anyone at anytime... but usually accentuated by over crowding or warm/humid conditions... similar to a brooder or certain weather patterns. Accidental droppings in the waterer spreads coccidiosis (an overgrowth bloom) fast.

I personally never ever treat anything just on a schedule. I will check for everything on a schedule... every few weeks for parasites a physical check of multiple birds AFTER DARK with a flash light is most effective since SOME mites only come out to feed at night and don't actually live on the bird. And a couple fecal floats per year to check worm load AND species... since it's pointless to treat for what you don't have while maybe not treating what you do and not all wormers treat all worms... treating without cause is a recipe for resistance to the drugs and making them not work when you really need them too. Also note that some mites are microscopic and you will never see them, but only the evidence of them... Like Scaly leg mites and depluming.

DE is stuff I hate. Consider it over rated, overused, and ineffective in MANY environments AND on many parasites... plus it's indiscriminate and will take bees and all in addition to being strip mined. I also consider it a health hazard to my birds and my family. The dust cloud when they are bathing is on par with a tractor plowing a field and I see it explode every time they shake out there after.

http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/the-cut-dry-truth-about-diatomaceous/

http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/diatomaceous-earth-de-benefitrisk/

Listen, I'm ALL for natural and organic IF it works. But when the health of my birds is at stake, I won't fool around.

If I NEED to treat for lice or mites... which I never did for 9 years in a different location... I use permethrin spray. It's safe, effective, affordable, labeled for use in chickens, and no withdrawal time for eggs. It's the synthetic version of Pyrethrum which is a chrysanthemum extract. But to me organic or not... poison IS poison, think lead, arsenic type stuff. There are other product like elector psp, and IC3 that are good alternatives.

The worm load will depend on your pasture situation. Some places have higher populations than others. I practice good pasture management for prevention. Since it is new to you, maybe you can do a float at different times of year the first year or... see how your count looks and then if it seem like you do have a heavy season... maybe then treat on a schedule... trying to switch up the drug you use to prevent parasite resistance.

With enough birds... for me, I decided most the poo I remove gets hauled off in the trash can. It really isn't garden gold. You might consider deep litter method in your run?? I tried to make mine like the forest floor... inviting good microbes and bugs to come clean up and compete for space with the nasties. I still pick up what poo I see... but the build of leaves, grass clippings, pine needles and so on really keeps things dry and flies down. Could also consider making a fly trap... inverted cone part into a soda bottle with attractant like raw meat scrap (waste) or surprisingly a slice of apple.

Funny enough... you mention using DE especially in hot months... I believe (but always here to learn) that lice and mites are more cool weather pests... I KNOW the lice is according to my vet and for MY area. Hot weather here actually equals LESS cleaning for me... because everything dries out pretty fast. In cool weather, I have to clean way more often to keep things acceptable. But I know each situation is unique... as so finding and knowing what works for YOU in YOUR location is key.

I am no expert... these are my opinion based on my experience, research, and understanding... after about 9 years and a few hundred birds.

You are already seeking the truth about different treatment. You have come to the right place! You will still get many varied opinions and still have to sort through the muck ( I see a LOT of misinformation spread EVERY day) and decide what truly makes sense to YOU.

I prefer barn lime or Sweet PDZ if I need to keep odor down.

Ask a long question... get a LONG answer. Like MOST here, I'm a BIT passionate.

Good luck and best wishes with your flock!

 

[kmom08]

One thing I've never thought of is a fecal float. Not sure why as my dogs and cat have them done yearly. I'll have to do some research on it. Do you do yours at home?

The closest vet that takes chickens is 3 hours away, that's why learning about preventing and detecting problems is important to me. We do own a microscope and I've used that before to look at poop with my daughter (more for her curiosity at the time) now I'm thinking we could use it more often.

 

[Birdsong 82]

I’m with @EggSighted4Life . I am huge on all natural and organic. It’s a very important thing to me but it when it comes to the health of my chickens or any of my animals I do what it takes to solve the problem. As far as worms I only treat when needed. There is a lot of misconception about DE. There is a lot of people who think it can be used as a dewormer which it is not and it’s probably more harmful for your chickens and helpful. The only place I use DE is on the ground around some of my plants to help with ants. But I will only used it in the fenced in part of my garden that the chickens cannot get to it. PDC in the coop could help prevent some things by keeping moisture down. I luckily have never had a problem with worms or mites but I’m sure my time will come. Just general good health and a clean coop are really the best preventative measures we can take but I think even the cleanest of kids can have problems from time to time.

 

[Birdsong 82]

I have heard you can do your own fecal float and there are books with instructions. I’ve been looking into doing my own because everybody says a regular vet will do it but none of the ones around here well and there are absolutely no chicken vets around

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I have heard you can do your own fecal float and there are books with instructions. I’ve been looking into doing my own because everybody says a regular vet will do it but none of the ones around here well and there are absolutely no chicken vets around

Yes, I bought my own microscope and instruction are at fiasco farms website, including how to make the float solution... however, I do believe their is a learning curve... and passive floats have been shown to be inaccurate compared to those spun down with a centrifuge. There are also online directions how to use your washing machine for that. I haven't yet ran my own test... but I feel like for the first few times it might be best to also pay for a professional one and compare the results... Maybe one of the mail in services would be an option for you?

Just general good health and a clean coop are really the best preventative measures we can take but I think even the cleanest of kids can have problems from time to time.

True statements.

To me general good health MEANS feeding a good ration, age & breed/gender appropriate NOT diminished by too many low nutrient snacks such as corn or scratch. The formulated ration has the correct concentration of essential vitamins, minerals, protein, and importantly amino acids. Of course that's in addition to good flock/coop/pasture maintenance. Which also includes the parasite control, both internal and external and also predator control, well ventilated coop and not over stocking your density or bringing in unknown birds that disrupt your bio-security.. including NOT inviting wild birds to feeders. All those things are stressors that indeed take their toll. Never ever feel bad for a sick bird and bring it home... otherwise risk your entire flock.

OP.. you are off to good start... with an open mind and willingness to learn and research. Your flock may face challenges, as many do... But I can tell they will be in good hands!

 

[kmom08]

I added a poop tray in my coop under the roosts this time around and put pdz in it. I started out covering the poop tray with pine shavings worried they would eat the pdz at first. Now I don't bother with covering it and I love how easy it is to just scoop their poop. I sprinkle the DE under the pine shavings in the rest of the coop, and I've been using it to help dry my run out from all the rain while waiting on sand to be delivered.

With my last flock we used a large 10'x10'x6' high dog kennel on wheels and moved it around the yard every 4-5 days so the grass always had a chance to keep growing. Plus they ranged in the yard when we were home.
This time around I wanted a much larger run so we made it stationary, I didn't expect them to clear the grass within a few short weeks. I'm glad they are old enough now for me to let them out when I'm home to enjoy the grass in the rest yard. They love hanging out under my apple tree.

 

[Birdsong 82]

Yep every time we build a run you’re thinking Man They’ll love all this grass and it’s amazing how fast they loved it. LOL mine don’t get to free range until they start laying eggs so for them as far as grass sometimes I will actually plant grass or Lettuce in small containers and once it’s grown I put it in there. They might enjoy that when they aren’t able to free range

I added a poop tray in my coop under the roosts this time around and put pdz in it. I started out covering the poop tray with pine shavings worried they would eat the pdz at first. Now I don't bother with covering it and I love how easy it is to just scoop their poop. I sprinkle the DE under the pine shavings in the rest of the coop, and I've been using it to help dry my run out from all the rain while waiting on sand to be delivered.

With my last flock we used a large 10'x10'x6' high dog kennel on wheels and moved it around the yard every 4-5 days so the grass always had a chance to keep growing. Plus they ranged in the yard when we were home.
This time around I wanted a much larger run so we made it stationary, I didn't expect them to clear the grass within a few short weeks. I'm glad they are old enough now for me to let them out when I'm home to enjoy the grass in the rest yard. They love hanging out under my apple tree.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Yep every time we build a run you’re thinking Man They’ll love all this grass and it’s amazing how fast they loved it. LOL mine don’t get to free range until they start laying eggs so for them as far as grass sometimes I will actually plant grass or Lettuce in small containers and once it’s grown I put it in there. They might enjoy that when they aren’t able to free range

Some people use grazing frames to keep the birds from destroying the roots.

Sprouting barley, oats, peas, wheat, millet, or other things or growing into fodder is also an easy an fun, highly enjoyed treat.. with rapid turn around, about a week.

Lettuce is fun but low in nutrients.

 

[Ms Biddy]

As far as natural things that work...I use artemesia/wormwood to prevent coccidiosis in my chicks and it hasn't been an issue for me yet. I don't know if it would have been an issue had I not used it, but my choice is based on actual research as well as the historical use of wormwood prior to synthesized anthelmics. I also blend veggie mixes for my adult chickens in the food processor and add wormwood to this along with garlic and cayenne.

NCBI Research Article