To Worm or Not? And, Piperazine dosage for bantams?

[ma kettle]

Thank you ThreeHorses, this thread is brilliant and timely. I found little worms on Friday in hen droppings, (rice sized, maggot looking, squirming around), and I am so grossed out that I nearly threw in the towel. I have had a rotten summer with my birds and just felt defeated. Out of 9 laying hens, I have been lucky to get 10 eggs per week all summer, and they are going through lay mash like there is no tomorrow. Now I know why. Just thinking that I've been feeding my family wormy eggs makes me sick. Cleaned coop and did the piperazine 17 in water yesterday. Will probably do the pour-on in two weeks. I guess I should go to the pharmacy and de-worm my whole family. I am so disgusted. :-( This worm episode follows the June dog attack that killed 3 chickens, mutilated a fourth. Nursed that bird back to health and had to pick maggots out of wounds... Was rewarded by my efforts by the now-healthy chicken growing spurs and surprising us all with his crowing. Not supposed to have crowing fowl making noise between 8p and 8a where I live... I think maybe this hobby is not for me... :-( Boy, am I feeling sorry for myself. Ok, need to get over it and medicate these birds and family and dog and cat and get the problem solved. But still, the yuck factor is HIGH!

 

[verlaj]

I found little worms on Friday in hen droppings, (rice sized, maggot looking, squirming around),

These sound like tapeworm segments to me. Neither piperazine (Wazine) nor ivermectin will get them. Not sure what is best for tapes in chickens, but threehorses undoubtedly does!​

 

[threehorses]

MSU states that tapeworms can be treated with Fenbendazole or levamisole. I know that usually Praziquantel or Pyrantal is used for other animals but I can't pin down a dose for poultry. Oxfenbendazole is also effective, being found at pigeon supplies. But there are studies that fenbendazole was used in ducks for tapes and found to be quite effective. As Fenbendazole is a good follow up for wazine (in a month) I'd try that. It's a good follow up anyway because it's effective on larvae of roundworms (while wazine only really does adults).

The REAL way of treating for tapes is prevention of their method of spread: earthworms, beetles, disallowing chickens on grounds where cats/dogs drop their feces. In real life practical application that means disallowing access to worm bins, not purposefully feeding birds earthworms, and keeping the soil dry (as in the use of sand versus top soil for runs for example).

Are you certain they weren't maggots? It's not unheard of for maggots to hatch in droppings in the summer and they start quite small. It's very unusual for any infestation to drop a high number of worms in a dropping like that.

In any case, the wazine worming with a follow up of fenbendazole (SafeGuard horse paste, or Safeguard 10% sheep solution, or crumbles such as those sold at some poultry supply houses) would be a very sound thing to do.

Keep trying - it'll get easier, honestly!

 

[ma kettle]

TAPEWORMS???? Good God, that is even more disgusting. Found some white larvae looking things in droppings today, and they were much smaller than the last ones--- tiny worms, maybe 1/10 size of grain of rice. Still squirming around. So this round of Piperazine did nothing to quell this latest nightmare??!! UGH! I have no idea if they were maggots or tapes or roundworms... The droppings were very fresh and there they were. Friday's droppings had much larger sguiggling things; today's was much smaller and fewer. I am in Southern Calif., so it is drought here, very dry, can't imagine they find an earthworm in their yard, since they have pretty much killed every living plant and turned it into a moonscape.

Is there something I can give that will kill every internal parasite? Or must I continue to try this and that until something works? Would the rub on stuff be good to use now, or should I wait until 14 days...??

I am hating maintenance of my birds right now. Why do they have to be so darn cute?! :-(

 

[ma kettle]

ThreeHorses, what is the dosage of the fenbendazole?

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Well think about it - wazine will kick worms out of your birds' systems. And its mechanism isn't to kill, it's to paralyze and expel where the environment will kill. Still since there's a follow up of fenbend or another thing anyway that is really beneficial, I'd do that. But that shape sure sounds like tapes.

Another thing you can do in the mean time is give them a gentle flush. A nice gentle flush (not a treatment strength, but more of a post-worming flush) is a tiny bit of molasses in water, mixed with applesauce, a little cooked oatmeal, yogurt, and some crumbles or egg mixed into a damp mash. The applesauce's pectin gently cleanses the digest tract while also making good bacteria "happy", the molasses also makes things flush ou ta bit, the yogurt replaces the good bacteria in the digestive tract, the patmeal sooths, and the egg - well they just like it.

Do it only one meal. If there are some paralyzed worms in there, that should help pass them out.

Fenbendazole dosage depends on the type you get - solution, paste, if you do a flock worming or an individual worming, etc. The horse paste or goat solution of SafeGuard can be mixed up in a damp mash for birds. The Safeguard horse paste can be dosed to individual birds without making a mash - a BB sized piece on the tongue.

10% solution is mixed as follows:

MSUCares says: "One-day Treatment: 1 oz Safeguard or Panacur per 15-20 lb feed
Dissolve the fenbendazole product in one cup of water. Mix this solution well into the feed and give to the birds as their only feed source for one day. When completely consumed, untreated feed can be given. Be sure that the commercial medication contains 10% fenbendazole."

SafeGuard horse wormer and SafeGuard liquid goat wormer are 10% (be sure to check the label) so each can be used. Liquid goat wormer is probably easier to use. Here's an example of the jar:
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=2&pf_id=0029013

I broke it down into smaller feeding amounts:

One ounce = 2 tablespoons. So 1/2 tablespoon for 1/4th a cup of water mixed into 3-4 pounds of feed, or 1/4th a tablespoon for 1/8th a cup of water mixed into 2 pounds of feed.

 

[ma kettle]

Thank you very much for your help. I have a very hard time calculating dosage. Will run by feed store tomorrow to see what they have, might have to order online. Thanks so much!

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Feedstores usually have the horse and cattle paste wormer (it's all the same - I use interchangably for horses, cattle tubes just being bigger and cheaper). The goat wormer seems the easiest to break down and probably mix. I don't know about you, but I hate trying to measure pastes.

I'm glad I could help.

MSUCares (Mississippi State U) is to thank for that dosage.

 

[snowflake]

this is such an awesome site I have learned so much; It is a good thing I am on vacation I have spent so much time reading here, but I am not getting any thing done around the place. ... a first time chicken owner I had read about worming but did not know how to do it. ...Thank you , thank you, thank you!!!!!






























































































































































































































































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[valerie]

Do you worm ducks the same way as the chickens? How long do you have to dispose of the eggs when you use Wazine? Can loss of feather be from worms too? Besides roosters
Thanks
Valerie