Topic of the Week - Deworming chickens

[casportpony]

The chicken that had worms died yesterday afternoon in her sleep. Thanks for your help, everyone

Sorry for your loss.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

I am pleased I was able to help put your mind at rest a little. I don't personally worry about shed intestinal lining and it hasn't resulted in any problems with my birds on the occasions that I have seen it, but I did read on one post here on BYC about shed intestinal lining, when I was looking for images for it (Kathy beat me to posting some), that it can be caused by capillary worms. I don't know if that is correct or not, but I have not experienced problems with capillary worms in my flock and I haven't wormed them in the past 3 years, so I suspect the "CAN" part of that statement might be a bit like saying you can get run over crossing the road.....ie It's a low risk possibility.

As I suggested in my first post on this thread, the thing to do might be to get a faecal sample analysed for worm eggs.
You have to remember that, as outdoor animals, chickens will most likely have worms so don't assume that you have to worm if you get a positive result. There is a balance with all parasites and a healthy chickens should be able to tolerate a low worm burden and it is probably normal for it to do so. However, sometimes for various reasons, the balance is upset and the parasite infestation becomes too great and the chicken starts to show signs of illness and failing to thrive. In my opinion, that is the time to worm them or if you are seeing worms regularly in their poop. I also check the intestines of cockerels that I process or any other bird that dies (I have Marek's disease in my flock), to give me an idea of the worm burden level. I have never found more than one or two so far.

As regards the "gaping" I think many people see this behaviour and assume it is gape worm because of the name. It is more commonly associated with respiratory infection or crop readjustment than gape worm in my opinion. I've certainly seen my chickens do it and again, I have not found gapeworm but I do have a chronic respiratory infection which circulates my flock every once in a while. Respiratory infections are very common in chickens, so again, this is a more likely cause. It also may be that chickens yawn too.... I know horses, dogs and cats do as well as humans and probably many other creatures, so why not chickens

I do not specifically know why chickens shed intestinal lining but I think it may be to do with their system using grit which will have an abrasive effect on their gut even though it is mostly fine particles that pass out of the gizzard and perhaps the intestine is constantly, if very slowly regenerated as a result of this abrasion and the old remnants shed. This is just a guess based on what I know of their digestive system.... I'll be interested to read Kathy's response to that question because I'm pretty confident that if she doesn't already know, she will find the correct answer for us.

I think the problem with vets is that they usually have little or no experience of chickens. As a business. it doesn't really pay to turn patients/customers away. The honest ones will say that they don't treat chickens and that might be quite frustrating as a chicken owner with a sick bird but it is far more annoying to find a vet that will treat chickens, pay them good money and later find that they actually don't know much and you could have got better advice here for free. The beauty of this site is that we can all share our collective experience to help each other and improve our own knowledge. I am indebted to all the people whose posts I have read in order to gain the knowledge I have and hopefully that will continue for many years to come.

Best wishes

Barbara

As I have said in many posts, it's not normal in my flock. Do I see it? Yes, I see it in chickens, but never in peafowl, turkeys, or ducks. The chickens I see in it will go away if I give them wormer and/or Corid. I looked briefly in some of the vet books and cannot find and info on whether it's normal or not.

-Kathy

 

[Kay Kew]

The chicken that had worms died yesterday afternoon in her sleep. Thanks for your help, everyone

Sorry to hear that. Did you find out what was the problem in the end? I saw your post earlier on this thread but wondered what had happened after that? When I got my three hens I was determined not to get 'attached' to them, but to be honest, if you care enough about any living thing to look after it, and do your best to keep it healthy and happy, it is hard not to be sorry when they die. That's the way it seems to me anyway!

 

[Kay Kew]

As I have said in many posts, it's not normal in my flock. Do I see it? Yes, I see it in chickens, but never in peafowl, turkeys, or ducks. The chickens I see in it will go away if I give them wormer and/or Corid. I looked briefly in some of the vet books and cannot find and info on whether it's normal or not.

-Kathy

Thanks Kathy - I will keep a close eye on my chickens and any signs of shed intestinal lining in poop over next few days. Hopefully the 5 day Panacur treatment will have helped, whatever the problem may have been. From now on I think that if I suspect any worm related problems in my chickens I will just ask the vet to do a fecal analysis, which was not mentioned so far in my visits to the vet. If they are clear, then I will be able to save myself quite a bit of bother and expense! I am so pleased to have come across a really useful source of information on this subject. In general I am highly sceptical about the 'wonders of the internet' but this site almost has me converted!!

 

[rebrascora]

@Kay Kew

Here in the UK you can send a sample off direct to a lab and it is usually cheaper than having it done at the vets and I've had next day results if you get it in the post before lunchtime. You need to have a sample pack ready though as they won't accept samples unless they are properly packaged. I buy several packs in advance. the pack contains a voucher for the analysis, the sample pot and a glove to collect the sample and all the labels and paperwork and even the addressed padded envelope with postage already paid, so all you have to do when you use it. is put the sample in the pot label it and fill in your details on the submission form, seal it all in the envelope and pop it in the post. Takes 10mins. I would be very surprised if labs throughout the world don't offer the same service... If you search worm egg count or faecal float test you should get some hits. I would imagine most will be for horse owners but some are now catering for chickens too. Just remember that some worms are to be expected. It's only when infestation levels are higher that you need to treat. The lab will usually advise you on whether the egg count is low, medium or high and may also advise on which product to use for that type of worm.

I was advised by a vet that my horse had ascarids and I was treating for that and getting nowhere. When I spoke to the lab, they said it was pin worms which are much less dangerous than ascarids(more of an irritation) but needed a different drug to get rid of them. Sure enough, they were right and I now have it sorted. I like my vets but I do think that experts in a specific field can offer the best advice even if they are less qualified..... like here on this site.... the likes of casportpony may not have the qualifications of a vet but far more experienced in the field of poultry than the vast majority of vets and therefore give better advice.

 

[rebrascora]

Barbara-

When you check the chickens for worms, do you have a specific technique? Cut the intestine open from gizzard to colon with little scissors, maybe?

Hi

I examine and carefully palpitate the intestine. If I see or feel anything that needs further investigation I cut it open at that point. Some worms can easily be felt through the gut wall as individuals. Where there is a high infestation of smaller worms, it should also be apparent by feel, and trigger further investigation.

In my opinion it would be reasonably normal for chickens to have a few worms if they live outdoors. Worming to eradicate all worms is not realistic and the medication needed to keep them that way, may have more adverse effects than a low worm burden. It is not in the interests of a parasite to kill it's host. There has to be a balance. Regular worming, in my opinion, stops that balance from being achieved. I appreciate that at times, perhaps due to other factors/ compromised immune system perhaps, the balance slips and the worm burden becomes too great and for me, that is the time to use wormers.

 

[Fancychooklady]

@Kay Kew


Here in the UK you can send a sample off direct to a lab and it is usually cheaper than having it done at the vets and I've had next day results if you get it in the post before lunchtime. You need to have a sample pack ready though as they won't accept samples unless they are properly packaged. I buy several packs in advance. the pack contains a voucher for the analysis, the sample pot and a glove to collect the sample and all the labels and paperwork and even the addressed padded envelope with postage already paid, so all you have to do when you use it. is put the sample in the pot label it and fill in your details on the submission form, seal it all in the envelope and pop it in the post. Takes 10mins. I would be very surprised if labs throughout the world don't offer the same service... If you search worm egg count or faecal float test you should get some hits. I would imagine most will be for horse owners but some are now catering for chickens too. Just remember that some worms are to be expected. It's only when infestation levels are higher that you need to treat. The lab will usually advise you on whether the egg count is low, medium or high and may also advise on which product to use for that type of worm. 

I was advised by a vet that my horse had ascarids and I was treating for that and getting nowhere. When I spoke to the lab, they said it was pin worms which are much less dangerous than ascarids(more of an irritation) but needed a different drug to get rid of them. Sure enough, they were right and I now have it sorted. I like my vets but I do think that experts in a specific field can offer the best advice even if they are less qualified..... like here on this site.... the likes of casportpony may not have the qualifications of a vet but far more experienced in the field of poultry than the vast majority of vets and therefore give better advice.     

There are vets and then there are vets. Avian vets just like equine vets are specialists in their field.
My equine vet is far more knowledgable about horses than my dog vet, but in a pinch if I can't get him here , any vet is better than none.

 

[Kay Kew]

@Kay Kew

Here in the UK you can send a sample off direct to a lab and it is usually cheaper than having it done at the vets and I've had next day results if you get it in the post before lunchtime. You need to have a sample pack ready though as they won't accept samples unless they are properly packaged. I buy several packs in advance. the pack contains a voucher for the analysis, the sample pot and a glove to collect the sample and all the labels and paperwork and even the addressed padded envelope with postage already paid, so all you have to do when you use it. is put the sample in the pot label it and fill in your details on the submission form, seal it all in the envelope and pop it in the post. Takes 10mins. I would be very surprised if labs throughout the world don't offer the same service... If you search worm egg count or faecal float test you should get some hits. I would imagine most will be for horse owners but some are now catering for chickens too. Just remember that some worms are to be expected. It's only when infestation levels are higher that you need to treat. The lab will usually advise you on whether the egg count is low, medium or high and may also advise on which product to use for that type of worm.

I was advised by a vet that my horse had ascarids and I was treating for that and getting nowhere. When I spoke to the lab, they said it was pin worms which are much less dangerous than ascarids(more of an irritation) but needed a different drug to get rid of them. Sure enough, they were right and I now have it sorted. I like my vets but I do think that experts in a specific field can offer the best advice even if they are less qualified..... like here on this site.... the likes of casportpony may not have the qualifications of a vet but far more experienced in the field of poultry than the vast majority of vets and therefore give better advice.

That sounds like a very good idea - thanks. I will see if I can track down a similar service here in Ireland. In general I am beginning to think that if my hens are all eating well, in good condition and behaving normally, I won't get too obsessed with poop contents. Today I noticed that at least one of them is still producing shed intestinal lining in the poop...not a huge amount, but definitely visible. Whatever is causing it must not be treatable using Panacur anyway as they have all just finished being dosed with that. If it continues or increases I will consider sending off a sample if I find someone who will analyse it.

 

[Kay Kew]

There are vets and then there are vets. Avian vets just like equine vets are specialists in their field.
My equine vet is far more knowledgable about horses than my dog vet, but in a pinch if I can't get him here , any vet is better than none.

I take your point Fancychooklady - as it happens the vet I brought my hens to is supposed to be an avian vet with a very good reputation for looking after the more out of the ordinary pets (at least in Ireland) such as parrots, tortoises etc. I had assumed it was her I would be dealing with, but in fact she wasn't there when I was there and my hens were dealt with by another vet. I suppose next time I should make it clear that the avian vet is the only one I want to deal with - though in an emergency I suppose that may not always be possible. Just hope I don't need to go back there for quite a while anyway!!

 

[GabrielBane]

Goooooooood afternoon all! Seems like this thread popped up JUST in time!

I recently purchased a pair of Sulmtalers from RBA, I live in Central Florida, and I received them from Virginia. I've never been a major fan of de-worming or antibiotics unless absolutely necessary. The pair, even after shipping, have shown no signs of worms/stress/disease, but they are still under quarantine at my home. Would it just be safer to worm them before bringing them to our FFA department's poultry area? (Albeit, I will say, I highly HIGHLY doubt the students are worming on a schedule)

I've always ordered chicks or picked up locally, so I'm apprehensive since it's my first time receiving shipped Juvenile birds, I don't want to introduce anything the local babies didn't have exposure to, thoughts?