Treating a whole brooder for...something.

[yoopergirl1211]

Hi everyone. So I have a brooder with about 150 Bantam and random chicks in it. Well probably down to 100 now. My brooder is set up correctly, enough heat lamps, space, cool areas.... this is like my 25th batch in 2 years and after a rough learning period I've gotten pretty good at keeping them all alive but I'm stumped right now. I'm loosing a handful at a time for the last week. At first I thought it was just normal, some chicks just die, but I treated with corrid, probiotics, tried acv, electrolytes, and they've had nutridrench before and now after the corrid. And nothing is helping.

I get 12 hours of lethargic and then some gasping, not all, some with seizures, not all, and some with what looks like wry neck but not all. I just don't get it.

I had one 8 week old in there with a broken wing and he started gasping last night. I gave wormer for gapeworm and tylon 50 and he seemed fine after a couple hours and still looks good today.

So I'm down to worms or respiratory but not sure if that's even possible for 2 week olds. The ones in there I hatched are mostly fine but the shipped ones are dropping like flies. Can I treat water with tylon? Can I do that with chicks?

 

[azygous]

Have you considered taking a couple of these dead chicks to an agricultural lab for necropsy? That would take all the guess work out of why they are dying in such numbers. At the very least, a random poop sample from the chicks for a fecal float test would give you some valuable information. It would be far better than us trying to guess what's going on.

I would also have a water test done by your health department. Even though you've raised other broods without incident, your water supply may have been contaminated recently and chicks being so tiny a fragile could be affected by very little toxins in their water where large humans may not.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I gave wormer for gapeworm and tylon 50 and he seemed fine after a couple hours and still looks good today.

So I'm down to worms or respiratory but not sure if that's even possible for 2 week olds.

It wasn't gape worm... the gasping in young chicks is a symptom of system failure. I agree with azygous and here is some information to help achieve that to get REAL answers...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

Thing is, shipping can be hard and they do sometimes drop even at the 2 week mark. Over crowding sounds like an issue.

Treating with an antibiotic would NOT be my choice... they kill good things too and if their isn't an active bacterial infection, it's pointless. It won't help with viral stuff.

What are you feeding including treats and supplements on a regular basis?

Next time maybe find out what you are treating for FIRST? What did you worm with and did you worm them all? Learning what age symptoms line up or to look at the total picture instead of just one symptom like the open mouth.

Even pasty butt will cause gasping, is easy to miss in large groups and VERY deadly VERY fast.

You are throwing WAY too many unknown treatments at them.

 

[yoopergirl1211]

Thanks for responding. I check every chick every other day for pasty butt. The temps are good and I haven't had any issue with it with these guys. They are in an 8ft by 6ft brooder so space isn't an issue at 2-3 weeks they get moved out to a bigger one. I have other birds the same age with broodies drinking the same water outside and none have died so I don't think it's that. They are on unmedicated chick starter and I don't typically give treats till they hit 21/2-3 weeks and have had grit in brooder for a week. The only one I treated was an older bird from my flock that had been outside free ranging and moved in by these guys to recover from a hurt wing. He is fine now so something helped and I'm guessing it was the tylon. Sending it out is an option but by the time I get the results half my brooder could be gone. I know there are a hundred different things it could be and I've had to deal with a lot of them but this time I'm stumped. I can't just sit and watch it happen. I avoid using meds if possible but I've already tried all of the natural and environmental options. Everything is clean. I wash and refill waters and food twice a day change bedding every other day when I check for pasty butt and any other issues. No draft or outside contamination. I'm giving the 5 that look the worst right now what I gave the older one. They will be dead by tonight if I don't do something and it helped him. Fingers crossed.

 

[azygous]

If you saw any of the sick chicks respond to the Tylan, there's likely bacteria involved. Identifying the bacteria certainly would help so you can tailor the antibiotic to the type of bacteria. Yes, it would take a while to get lab test results back, but you may learn something important that can affect the remainder of the chicks and maybe even future ones. In other words, taking the opportunity to get some answers would be wise.

Another possibility is the hatchery had contamination and your chicks were exposed to bacteria before they got to you. This occurs from time to time. In fact, it happened to me several years ago when I learned that Privet Hatchery in New Mexico, where my chicks had just come from, had a salmonella contamination.

I hadn't noticed any sick chicks, but I decided to play it safe to protect my existing flock (and myself), and I sent chick poop samples, along with general flock samples, to a lab to see if any salmonella was present. It was well worth the expense to know that none of the chicks or adult flock were carrying around the salmonella bacteria.

I would also urge you to contact the hatchery and detail this problem. They may be willing to test a couple dead chicks to see what's going on, or they may be able to tell you what the problem might be if they've had a bacterial outbreak at the hatchery.

It sounds like you have a considerable poultry endeavor going so it would be very worthwhile to have a few tests done to be sure this isn't something that is going to ruin life for you and your chickens and future chickens.

 

[Eggcessive]

I would second the suggestion to save a couple of dead chicks, and send them on ice to a state poultry lab for a necropsy. With multiple age chicks coming and going, coccidiosis or enteritis could be a problem, so getting a few droppings examined by a vet would help.

Most experts recommend an all in, all out approach with total disinfection of brooders between groups of chicks. I expose chicks to clumps of sod on their first day to gradually introduce them to a small amount of coccidia in the soil.

Lastly, you have had a bunch of good people offering help. I would look at your heat lamp bulbs as well, just to make sure they are only for poultry. Teflon coated bulbs have been linked to chick deaths. One case last winter happened when an electrician replaced a burnt out bulb with a spare he had in his work truck. It killed most of their new chicks within hours.

 

[rebrascora]

I would be concerned that the older chick with the wing issue and respiratory distress may have Marek's Disease. It is not uncommon for them to spontaneously recover after a few days or weeks even but they will be carriers for life and prone to further outbreaks. Bringing it in where you have so many young chicks was a risky move. If you don't know about Marek's, read up on it. It is such a common and widespread disease that you really need to be aware of it if you are raising so many chicks. How old are the chicks which are showing symptoms and how long after you brought the other bird in did you start seeing problems?
Something else to consider is environmental factors. Have you had a heat wave recently which would increase the ambient temp of the room you are brooding them in. That can make a significant difference to the water in the brooder which can then allow bacteria to multiply much more quickly or the chicks to overheat more easily. It may be Almeria rather than Coccidia and therefore not respond to Corid.

I agree that necropsy is the thing to do. You can often get a next day interim report, so it shouldn't take that long. With the numbers you are brooding I can only assume you are running some sort of small business and as such you very much need to know what you are dealing with and how to treat it effectively. Via a keyboard and screen, we can really only guess.

 

[Flockandfowl46]

When you were treating with corid were you giving electrolytes? These will counteract the effectiveness of corid

 

[Eggcessive]

I am a bit confused by the statement “it may be almeria rather than coccidia, and not respond to Corid.” All coccidia are eimeria, but certain species such as Eimeria Tenella or E. Necatrix can be very severe. There are 9 or more species that affect only chickens, and those two are the most deadly. If Corid isn’t working, then you may have a resistant strain, where sulfa antibiotics from a vet may be needed. This is where lab work or a necropsy is helpful. Here is a good link about coccidiosis:
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/coccidiosis/overview-of-coccidiosis-in-poultry


Also electrolytes do not counteract Corid, but thiamine (vitamin B 1) is thought to be harmful to give since Corid mimics thiamine in the coccidia organism. Of course, many electrolytes also contain vitamins.

 

[yoopergirl1211]

Thank you. Trying to digest all the info. I contacted the hatchery this morning to inform them but haven't heard back. Trying to find the info to send in some of the chicks to find out. I had to leave for work so I'm not sure if the 5 I gave tylon to are doing any better. I will read up on the links when I get out of work. How easily does bacteria issues spread?
I brought the older bird in about 4 days before last night when I noticed the gasping. At that point a few chicks had died but I assumed it was cocci and had started corrid. The older one had a broken wing that was healing poorly. He is doing great today. I'm curious what the hatchery has to say. I try to match my hatch to my shipments for the brooder. Typically a week is the biggest gap so I can treat them all the same. I haven't seen any bloody or foamy stool but I'm my check today a couple had what looked like wry nuts that had dried but not clogged around vent. Will it transfer to my hatched chicks? I had two of those die but one was weak when it hatched and two is a normal number for the number I hatched. The rest are great. Just the shipped ones and the gasping from the older one that is gone now. Ugh. I'm going to tear down brooder and sterilize again tomorrow.