TTMA lethal white gene

[violajack]

I read in the chicken calculator thread something about there being a lethal variant of the white gene? I have two English white hens with the black dot on their head. One of my roos is tibetan, one is golden maybe? Or some sort of tan? I know the golden can also be lethal. I had a chick hatch that was totally yellow, and seems to be feathering out completely white (no black dot like the other English whites.) She needed a shoe for a few hours to straighten toes on one foot. Her toes are fine now, but she's always seems a bit shakey on her legs. At first, I thought it was related to weakness or from the shoe, as she spent most of her time sitting back on her hocks. At just over two weeks old, she stands up on her feet full time, but she shakes, or wobbles. She gets around fine, eats and drinks, and tries to fly out of the brooder like her hatchmates, but I'm wondering if this is a sign of the lethal gene that will take her out within the week, as I read that they tend to not make it past 3 weeks. She also makes a different kind of sound that the others, but not it a bad way, just different. But she seems to be getting wobblier rather than stronger, which has made me start to wonder. Is this what a chick with the lethal light down color looks like as it goes downhill, or is this just a weak chick?

 

[Quailobsessed]

Do you know @Fenrisulfr?

 

[Fenrisulfr]

I am not 100% sure, but as far as I know the recessive Whites and dotted Whites have no lethal factor, as they are recessive. There would no Whites exist, if homozygotious bird had a lethal factor.

But there is also a dominant White, maybe there. I gotta take a look into my new quail book at home, may I can find something.

 

[violajack]

It's entirely possible she's just a sickly chick. It looks almost like a mild but potentially worsening neurological thing to me, so I wondered.

 

[FloorCandy]

From what I’ve seen about the lethal genes mentioned in quail, it’s more of an egg mortality issue, meaning the eggs won’t fertilize or will quit before hatching. I had a weak runt with one leg a bit shorter than the other and he was always falling down, the best physical therapy was putting it alone for small periods of time, and it would stretch up on its toes and call for its friends. After maybe a day and a half of this, the chick was indistinguishable from the others. My chick was treated at days old not weeks, so therapy might take longer in an older chick.

 

[violajack]

She's been like this from the beginning. I figured she'd get stronger as she got older, and she is in the sense that she stands up on her feet now instead of sitting back on her hocks. But she's just as shaky on her feet today (2.5 weeks) as she was at one week old. We had another, much weaker, smaller chick that had to be assisted and took days to get her feet up under her, but she's solid now, just smaller. The white one is just......wobbly. I guess she'll be okay, or she won't. She's probably headed for the freezer in any case. I think I'm going to go hold her for a bit before I clean out the brooder for today.

 

[FloorCandy]

What feed do you use? My worst assisted hatch lay on its side twitching in the incubator for 18 hours after hatch, once I got it into a cardboard tube and able to stand, which was about 2 hours in the tube, it was walking that day. If it took a weak chick days to stand for you, I think maybe you might need to look into the food and see if it’s missing anything, like too low protein.

 

[violajack]

I have chick starter - 25% protein. It's the highest I can get around here. But it took me a day to get that. I'll admit, I had them on the quail layer feed (28% protein, but 3.5% calcium) for the first day, but assisted hatch wasn't out at that point. I had to get oyster shell for my chickens since one surprised me by laying a month earlier than anticipated. What I really want to do for them is have a regular quail specific feed with the oyster shell on the side, when I can figure out how to crush it small enough for the quail. Then I can feed the higher protein stuff to everyone and just have the oyster shell for the adults.

I think part of what took her so long to stand is that I was apprehensive about having her out of the heat for more than about 10 minutes at a time. So instead of one long therapy session, she had many short sessions over the course of three days.

I think the temperature had been too high for most of the incubation anyway, so now I'm thinking it's related to that rather than any kind of genetic issue. I'll find out in three days when my next, cooler kept, batch starts to hatch. I'm also open to better feed suggestions for the new batch. Especially if it ships prime.

 

[violajack]

Feed update: actually it's a gamebird starter, but only 25%.

I just ordered the H&H gamebird crumble. That's 28%. I'll put all my chicks on that as soon as it comes.

 

[FloorCandy]

I use 28% protein, 3- 3.5% calcium for my chicks. It’s made by h & h feed and it’s very pricey, so I just give it for maybe 3-4 weeks then I swap to one that’s a bit cheaper, but I switch gradually, so it takes a couple weeks. The main food I feed comes from chewy, called Hudson feeds, it’s their game bird feed, not the pheasant and quail feed. It’s 25% I think but a bit less calcium so I offer oyster shell as well.