Updated - Corid and Amprol (amprolium) Dosing

[zazouse]

Question if coccida is so prevalent in an area that chicks have to be kept on preventive meds to keep them healthy what happens when you stop the meds and they get it again? i mean long term use of corrid is not good so what do folks do , how long till a bird can become completely immune ? or do they ever? I know i have read 4 months but i read birds getting it after 4 months of age.

I am so glad i haven't had to deal with this but it always lumes in the back of my mind what if and i wonder why i have never had a problem i even let the let wee ones out during the day and they are also fine.

 

[Fancychooklady]

Hmmm, if I'm reading it correctly (who knows?), I interpret it as giving the dosing for the drug to poultry via water, not drenching.  It does mention drenching for cattle.  And it says not to give to birds over 16 weeks -- which in the context of the label, would mean not in the water, either?

I dunno, I think that has to be related to withdrawal period rather than harm to the bird, but again, totally unclear to me.  I did find this version of the prescribing information that seemed to specifically link it to withdrawal period ("residue warning"). 

http://www.drugs.com/pro/sulfadimethoxine.html

I am trying to figure out if I can administer it as a drench, or orally via food, to individual birds.

My peas are all fine (thank heavens ), but I am thinking that a couple of the geriatric chicken hens are having coccidiosis issues, which is manifesting as very watery poo.  They are otherwise eating, drinking and continuing to lay eggs.  Since the red sex-link is rapidly approaching 4 (as are all the chicken hens), I think maybe the stress of all the laying has just worn out her body and immune system.  There's no blood in the poo, it's just very watery in two of the chickens.

I also suspect, since the peas are fine, that this may be one of the strains that chickens get and peas don't.  The peas are having perfect hershey kiss poo.

I started everybody on Corid in the drinking water (including the peas), and I'm hoping that clears it up pronto.  But I'm thinking the poor, worn-out hens might benefit from some actual antibiotic down the throat.  I don't want to put the antibiotic in the drinking water, since I don't think there's any point in the peas getting it, and I don't want them on an antibiotic unless it's clearly indicated.

I do think I want to give everyone some extra B vitamins and some probiotics can't hurt...

But I'm trying to figure out if I can individually drench all the chicken hens to see if that fixes their problem.

Sorry I should have been clearer, yes the drenching relates to cattle . Kathy is great with conversions and I was thinking she might widen the research on this.
It is not recomended that you administer antibiotics to birds over 16 weeks of age that produce food. Baytril is one example of an antibiotic that finds it's way through the food chain and knocks out the effectiveness of that family of drugs in humans. When I have been to the avian vet , he hands me a slip that says I have been made aware of this.

https://sites.google.com/a/poultrypedia.com/poultrypedia/medicine-chart

 

[Garden Peas]

Question if coccida is so prevalent in an area that chicks have to be kept on preventive meds to keep them healthy what happens when you stop the meds and they get it again? i mean long term use of corrid is not good so what do folks do , how long till a bird can become completely immune ? or do they ever? I know i have read 4 months but i read birds getting it after 4 months of age.

I am so glad i haven't had to deal with this but it always lumes in the back of my mind what if and i wonder why i have never had a problem i even let the let wee ones out during the day and they are also fine.

So the way I understand it, there are lots of strains of the protozoa that cause coccidiosis. Chickens can get at least 9 different strains, turkeys get different strains. I don't know which strains peafowl get, and apparently different kinds of pheasant can get different strains. The little birdies that fly in and out of my pens probably carry their own strains -- who knows whether those are strains that the chickens or peas could get?

Apparently mature birds with mature, healthy immune systems can get exposed (like by eating the little spores from the ground) but not get sick. But the baby birds don't have immune systems that can withstand the infectious organism, so baby birds get sick from it, and can die.

There are multiple ways to protect from it, including giving a medicine that gradually exposes the baby birds to the organisms so they can gradually build up their immunity. The amprolium is a low dose in the chick starter feed, and that supposedly keeps the organisms at bay long enough for the chicks to develop immunity.

But apparently there is never total immunity, so if the bird's immune system is compromised (say an old worn-out chicken, like my senior ladies), then sometimes, apparently the organism can get the upper hand. Likewise, with chicks, if they are stressed, or don't have enough immunity yet, they can get an outbreak, apparently especially if the sanitation isn't up to par.

I think someone wrote earlier in this thread that hen-raised chicks do better, since they are less likely to be picking at poo, which is a huge source of infection. I started all my birds on medicated starter, and didn't have a problem for a long time. And even now, the old hens are doing pretty well and hanging in there.

I am definitely not the authority on this stuff, but this sort of summarizes all the stuff I've read, which has been a lot

 

[Garden Peas]

Sorry I should have been clearer, yes the drenching relates to cattle . Kathy is great with conversions and I was thinking she might widen the research on this.
It is not recomended that you administer antibiotics to birds over 16 weeks of age that produce food. Baytril is one example of an antibiotic that finds it's way through the food chain and knocks out the effectiveness of that family of drugs in humans. When I have been to the avian vet , he hands me a slip that says I have been made aware of this.

https://sites.google.com/a/poultrypedia.com/poultrypedia/medicine-c hart

Yep, I am totally on board with the problem of antibiotic resistance. Am already pitching the eggs because of the Corid, and will continue to pitch them if we give the antibiotic. The hens are pets, and are much too old to even be made into stew. (It's like Alice, it's impolite to eat anyone to whom you've been introduced.

I have kids, therefore all hens have names...)

I'd be more willing to withhold antibiotics on food chain issues if the ginormous agribusiness industry weren't still putting antibiotics in feed as a supplement...

But I'm pretty tolerant of the idea of treating sick ones...

 

[casportpony]

I'll look in my Plumb's book for the oral dose.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Each bird species get their own strains. Ducks, geese, chickens, peafowl, turkeys, guineas, finches, etc., each one is different.

-Kathy

 

[Garden Peas]

Each bird species get their own strains. Ducks, geese, chickens, peafowl, turkeys, guineas, finches, etc., each one is different.

-Kathy

But that's a part that's weird to me... there must be some strains that are inter-specific? Otherwise, why would our peas get coccidiosis if they are being raised somewhere that peas have never been? Or is the coccidiosis problem for peas only limited to places where peas have gone before? My peas (which thankfully haven't been sick), were hatched from eggs, on property that had never had peas on it, and are now on another property that has never had peas on it other than these.

This is a part of the coccidiosis issue that it very puzzling to me...

 

[Fancychooklady]

Each bird species get their own strains. Ducks, geese, chickens, peafowl, turkeys, guineas, finches, etc., each one is different.

-Kathy

That is correct and dogs and cats and horses. Goats, cows etc. the best you can do is try to build immunity , keep as clean a coop as possible , rotate the birds to ' new ' ground ' , if you can and treat proactively when and if you have an outbreak.

 

[zazouse]

So the way I understand it, there are lots of strains of the protozoa that cause coccidiosis. Chickens can get at least 9 different strains, turkeys get different strains. I don't know which strains peafowl get, and apparently different kinds of pheasant can get different strains. The little birdies that fly in and out of my pens probably carry their own strains -- who knows whether those are strains that the chickens or peas could get?

Apparently mature birds with mature, healthy immune systems can get exposed (like by eating the little spores from the ground) but not get sick. But the baby birds don't have immune systems that can withstand the infectious organism, so baby birds get sick from it, and can die.

There are multiple ways to protect from it, including giving a medicine that gradually exposes the baby birds to the organisms so they can gradually build up their immunity. The amprolium is a low dose in the chick starter feed, and that supposedly keeps the organisms at bay long enough for the chicks to develop immunity.

But apparently there is never total immunity, so if the bird's immune system is compromised (say an old worn-out chicken, like my senior ladies), then sometimes, apparently the organism can get the upper hand. Likewise, with chicks, if they are stressed, or don't have enough immunity yet, they can get an outbreak, apparently especially if the sanitation isn't up to par.

I think someone wrote earlier in this thread that hen-raised chicks do better, since they are less likely to be picking at poo, which is a huge source of infection. I started all my birds on medicated starter, and didn't have a problem for a long time. And even now, the old hens are doing pretty well and hanging in there.

I am definitely not the authority on this stuff, but this sort of summarizes all the stuff I've read, which has been a lot

 

[zazouse]

Each bird species get their own strains. Ducks, geese, chickens, peafowl, turkeys, guineas, finches, etc., each one is different.

-Kathy

So are they all treated by the same meds or do different strains need different meds?