Methionine is an amino acid that is in high proportions in grains, but in insufficient quantities in legumes. If the chicken gets grains, methionine should be no issue. While grains are not "vegetables" per se (depending on one's definitions, but, biologically speaking grains are fruits, not vegetables), they certainly can be part of a "vegetarian" or even "vegan" (plant-based) diet. Lysine is in high quantities in Lamb's quarters, a common backyard and garden green leafy "weed." Lysine is also high in quinoa, a grain-like seed, as well as in all legumes, including alfalfa, beans, peas, etc. Lysine is in low quantities in grains, which is why people typically consider a grain plus a legume to provide a "complete protein" (having ample quantities of both of these limiting amino acids). So neither of these amino acids must be sourced from animals.
Close, but
functionally wrong. Yes, I understand protein complimentation, which you explained adequately. Here's the bit you missed. Methionine appears in high proportion relative to other amino acids
as a percentage of total protein in grains. The very vast majority of grains have very low protein, and as result, the contribution of amino acids by those grains to a chicken's needs are insufficient. The addition of synthetic methione sources (or an animal-based source like fish meal, porcine blood meal, etc) is critical to composing a nutritionally complete diet for a chicken. SO critical in fact that dl-Methionine can be added to feed without affecting its "organic" labelling.
Most reputable sources, and study after study, place the methionine needs of an adult laying hen at at least 0.3% (of a 100g/day diet). Hatchlings of all breeds and broiler chickens need much more to support their growth rates, rates up to about twice that.
100g of white corn contain just .197g. of Methionine. The same for
100g of yellow corn.
Changing sources (USDA doesn't have a listing for dried whole soft or hard wheat),
Feedipedia.org averaged
soft wheat as 87% dry matter. Of that dry matter, 12.6% was crude protein. Of that crude protein, 1.6% was Methionine. 100g * .87 * .126 * .016 = .175g of Methionine.
Durum (hard) wheat is better. 100g * .879 * .165 * .018 = .261g of Methionine in a 100g serving.
Quinoa? 0.18g. etc.
Lentils actualy contains MORE Methionine than a similar weight of corn or soft wheat (.021), even though methionine as a percent of total protein is lower, because it contains significantly more protein overall. and if that's not a big enough difference to make the point, here's
100g of chickpeas, 0.27g.
I could repeat for other ingredients, but I hope you begin to see my point. ALL of these ingredients provide insufficient levels of Methionine on their own. No combination of them will raise the methionine levels in the ration to the 0.3g minimum daily target - the only way it can occur is if you increase the size of the ration - which brings problems of its own, since most studies suggest chickens eat until their energy needs are met (roughly) not necessarily meeting desired levels of individual dietary components.
When we humans practice protein complimentation, we adjust ratios -
red beans and rice isn't 50g (dry) rice plus 50g (dry) beans in equal proportion, and we can increase total mass consumed, altering our diets elswhere thru the day, to meet our targets. A complete chicken ration is not mixed in such fashion.
A bit of unasked for advice, Egg Blues. You are relatively new to BYC and have made several pronouncements on how to feed birds,
including a homemade feed recommendation. We do check sources around here, do the math, test assertions. In short, we check one another, because we are interested in how best to see to the needs of our birds. The reliability of your opinions
on this subject (in my opinion) is not high.
