Vegetarian Chickens?

[Davaroo]

Quote:
Vegetarian chickens? Hardly a point to it, IMHO. You answered your own question, I believe. There will be those who are going to debate in its favor, as the greatest thing since envelopes, but the chickens natural diet is not one of strictly vegetarian proportions.

It wont hurt them, in general (although there are those who will argue THAT point, as well) - - but there is little genuine reason to pursue it, unless one is motivated by altruistic/moralistic reasons or can make money at it. There isn't much middle ground, as I see it.

As for the watermelon, chickens don't appreciate "change" as we do. They don't possess the aforementioned altruistic reasoning, so don't see the fruit as a welcome or kindly gesture.
To them, something new has appeared at ground level in their carefully ordered world and they are wary of it. Try hanging it in mesh baskets of poultry netting at eye level, or slightly above.

 

[oberhaslikid]

I know a women that has terets .Something else too, but she bought chickens from me and needed to know what they ate.I told her and she had to take them home and clean them up. OK
They had to only eat certain thing before she could eat their eggs.She was allergic to certain grains and such.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
Well, your statements are right but wrong.

First they are correct that soy by itself will not provide the proper amino acid ratios for chickens. HOWEVER, the feeds will contain the proper ratios of amino acids through the use of multiple protein sources and individual amino acids. The gut of the chicken doesn't care where the amino acids come from, just that the proper amounts of essential amino acids are available.

Jim

 

[Pathfinders]

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :

Quote:
Well, your statements are right but wrong.

First they are correct that soy by itself will not provide the proper amino acid ratios for chickens. HOWEVER, the feeds will contain the proper ratios of amino acids through the use of multiple protein sources and individual amino acids. The gut of the chicken doesn't care where the amino acids come from, just that the proper amounts of essential amino acids are available.

Jim

I will politely differ with you here. Synthetic amino acids (which are what is used in commercial feeds) are NOT the same as those derived directly from animal proteins. They do not produce the same results, rather like the difference between commercial baby formula and human breast milk, on paper they are nutritionally similar (or said to be exactly the same), but experience proves that the "real thing" is better.​

 

[Davaroo]

Like I said:
There will be those who are going to debate in its favor (vegetarian chickens), and those who will argue THAT, as well)...

In the end it doesn't make much difference to the chicken. Unless there is some physically harmful reason to the human that consumes the bird or its products, the need to ensur a vegetarian diet for the chicken seems moot.

 

[Wifezilla]

As for soy protein, if you are only having chickens lay for a couple of years during their peak and then culling, the substandard protein source wont make that much of a difference. If you plan on keeping your feathered friend their entire natural life span and/or want to breed them, that is when issues with a "vegetarian" chicken diet will start to make a difference.

It's similar to cattle and pigs. If you are stuffing them full of corn, M&M's, stale bread ad potato chips (common in feed lots) before slaughter, it will fatten them up nicely. If that is all they eat and you want them around for many years....well...you are going to have health issues.

 

[NYREDS]

I don't think bugs are a bad thing for chickens to eat; but pulverized cow bones and chicken by products should not be part of their diet, in my opinion.

Why not?​

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
Well, your statements are right but wrong.

First they are correct that soy by itself will not provide the proper amino acid ratios for chickens. HOWEVER, the feeds will contain the proper ratios of amino acids through the use of multiple protein sources and individual amino acids. The gut of the chicken doesn't care where the amino acids come from, just that the proper amounts of essential amino acids are available.

Jim

I will politely differ with you here. Synthetic amino acids (which are what is used in commercial feeds) are NOT the same as those derived directly from animal proteins. They do not produce the same results, rather like the difference between commercial baby formula and human breast milk, on paper they are nutritionally similar (or said to be exactly the same), but experience proves that the "real thing" is better.

I am a huge fan of animal proteins in animal feeds. The dramatic improvements we see in piglet growth with that addition of blood products such as spray dried animal plasma, and red blood cells is very compelling.

However, research in monogastrics has continually showed that the use of synthetic amino acids provides growth rates similar to diets containing only intact proteins from a variety of sources. The use of L-Lysine and DL-Methionine/MHA does in fact allow chickens to grow at the same rate when all essential amino acids are provided adequately.

Jim

 

[Pathfinders]

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :

However, research in monogastrics has continually showed that the use of synthetic amino acids provides growth rates similar to diets containing only intact proteins from a variety of sources. The use of L-Lysine and DL-Methionine/MHA does in fact allow chickens to grow at the same rate when all essential amino acids are provided adequately.

Jim

Jim, can you give us some links to that research? Thanks.​

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
Here are two articles I found.

E. R. Otto, M. Yokoyama, P. K. Ku, N. K. Ames and N. L. Trottier, Nitrogen balance and ileal amino acid digestibility in growing pigs fed diets reduced inprotein concentrations. J. Anim. Sci. 2003. 81:1743-1753.

A. M. Waguespack, S. Powell, T. D. Bidner, R. L. Payne and L. L. Southern. Effect of incremental levels of L-lysine and determination of the limiting amino acids in low crude protein corn-soybean meal diets for broilers. Poult Sci 2009. 88:1216-1226.

Jim