was (Q on mixing color Coturnix Quail) now is - Making Jumbo A&M

[Mojo Chick'n]

I have about 80 quail (60 of these are just hatched) and I have wild pattern, tuxedo, A&M, and golden.

I have my older quail seperated by color/pattern, but I was hoping to raise my breeder numbers with least space concerns of building new cages/pens.

So, My question is, with four different colors/patterns, how important is it to keep them all seperate, and is it even neccesary or desired?

For instance, if I mixed the goldens with the wild or the tuxedo with the A&M would it make a huge difference in the babies I get out of them?

Say I had two bigger cages (rather than four smaller ones) which ones would you/should I mix together in the cages?

thanks -
meri

 

[quail newbie]

I copied and pasted monarc's post on colours
Breeding Genetics
There is dominant and recessive colors in genetics. Dominant means that it WILL be the visual color you see. Recessive means that it needs TWO birds with the same color to produce it where as dominant only needs one bird of this color for the color to show up. For example...Golden is a dominant color, you can breed a golden to a normal brown, and produce a golden...because it's dominant. Heres a list of what I have learned is recessive and dominant. Incomplete dominant means mainly that it will cover only certain places of the bird, and that not every chick born will be that specific color (from what I have learned).

Black- Dominant
Cinnamon- Recessive
Extended Brown- Incomplete dominant over normal colored (i dont know much about this one).
White (A & M/English)- Recessive
Red Head- Recessive
Silver- Incomplete Dominant
Tuxedo- Recessive
Golden- Dominant (incomplete... if you breed it to a brown you will get MOSTLY Goldens but some browns)
Range (british range- tibetan) Dominant- incomplete .....if you breed it to white or A & M you'll get tuxedo

As I learn how to produce certain colors I will happily post the findings.

Golden is said to be fatal if breeding Golden to a Golden. Said to loose 25% of hatch, where as others have had 100% hatches out of breeding Golden to Golden. If you want to be on the safe side just breed your Golden to a brown and you'll get mostly Goldens. If not, possibly expect some eggs not to hatch. I've had 100% hatches however, breeding Golden to Golden so I am unsure how true this fatal issue is.

How to produce a Tuxedo- cross an A & M (i was told a nicer cross is with english) with a British Range.
If a brown carries the A & M or white gene, and is crossed with a tibetan (or tuxedo) some of the resulting offspring WILL be tuxedo marked! smile <---prooven this with my own breedings.

A Golden bred to any white looks to produce a bird that's mostly white with golden feathers, very pretty! *I have had one in the past but cannot say what was bred to produce it for sure*

Breeding a PURE White (no spots) *either a & m or english white* to another pure white (no spots) will produce 25-50% pure whites, others will more than likely have spots (wild colored spots on back of head neck and possibly back).

 

[shelleyd2008]

It's only as important as you think it is.

If you want to have all your birds jumbo sized (or close to it anyway) keep all hens, and only jumbo brown males.

If you are wanting to work on improving size/color of certain varieties, then it is obviously important to keep them seperated.

If you were to put all the birds together, you would still get a good mix of colors from the eggs, and might even get something new, you never know.

 

[Mojo Chick'n]

Hmmm....

so maybe I should get rid of the tuxedos, and do A&M, Wild and Goldens....

I was talking to ShelleyD and she said if I mixed A&M with the Jumbo wilds, I would get wild color, but the next generations would be white recessive, so if I bred those, I'd get 50% whites and keep going and I'd have Bigger whites (since the A&Ms are smaller than the jumbos).

I'm gonna try that, since I'd like to have the larger white birds (for large white meat quail for eating) and The golden/white mix sounds lovely, so I'll have to have a pen of those

So, unless the tuxedos are hugely popular with folks (for selling purposes) I'll just go down to the three colors/patterns and work on those.

thanks -
meri

 

[Mojo Chick'n]

Quote:
when breeding for bigger sized A&M, should I put A&M females with jumbo males, or vice versa, or a mix of both?

sorry, having brain fart today....

 

[shelleyd2008]

I'm not really sure how that works, I haven't seen anything on which parent affects the size of the young. I would think it would probably be better to use the jumbo hens, since their eggs are bigger, though my A&M lay eggs that look just like my jumbo browns. But you would have to breed the first set back to each other to even get any A&M, all of them would be split.

Not many give up their secrets on things like this around here, and I have yet to try it myself

I think we are all trying to come up with a jumbo A&M, like they are supposed to be, but I don't think any of us have actually done it. monarc23 had a hen that was 13 ounces, and she culled it

When I get my new cages I'll get to play a lot, and it will be A&M females with jumbo brown male, since I'm a bit short on males around here

 

[Mojo Chick'n]

Quote:
so... maybe I should try a pen with white males to jumbo females, and one with jumbo males with white females, and see which chicks are bigger.

short on males?

heck, the last 4 or 6 jumbos I hatched were males

I have those two right now - I may have to keep em instead of eating them

Although, they'd be a lot older than the hens, btu I do have about three a&m hens right now I could put with one (I have a jumbo trio out there, too, so I could put his girls with the a&m male)

hmmm.... after I clean the calf house and brooder bins today, maybe I ought to be swapping cages....

meri

 

[shelleyd2008]

Yeah, I've sold all my extra males. I don't ever have huge amounts of birds, so it's not hard to get rid of the extras.
I have 2 brown roos, 1 A&M roo, 1 golden roo, 1 cinnamon roo, and 1 tuxedoed dark tibetan roo. I think I'll end up putting a jumbo roo with the A&Ms, the A&M roo with the cinnamon/reds, the cinnamon roo with the jumbo browns, then I'd have my goldens and tuxedos still. I might put the golden roo with the other jumbo brown girls, to try and get a jumbo golden. So the other brown roo would go with the golden and rosetta hens. Then the tuxedos would be the only pen that would stay the same. But I need my new cages first

I'll probably have him make each cell 2x3, instead of having 2x6, that would give me more pens to seperate.

Fun, fun, fun!!

 

[Mojo Chick'n]

Quote:
When ya get set up, you should save only the biggest eggs to hatch, too - might make for bigger chicks, might not make a dif at all, but worth trying at least once.

meri

 

[Mojo Chick'n]

I'm glad I have a big lot of them to choose for breeders, (and more on the way sunday

)

This way I can save which ones I want and sell the rest (or butcher them).

How popular are the tuxedos, anyway? I have a few of those - they're pretty, but not part of the "project". Just wondered if it'd be worth keeping a small cage full of them.

meri