Water management and Strategies for water conservation

[perchie.girl]

This discussion is for every one who has water conservation concerns weather they are environmentally or personally driven. This also includes Grey water, Aquaponics, Drip irrigation, and Xeriscaping. Even Septic tanks and alternative toilets

In my case.... My land below survives on 3-10 inches of rain per year.




I live in an arid climate.... San Diego High desert. Normally we get about ten inches of precipitation per year last year we got three. I have a 450 foot deep well that is or has become a low producer.

I would like to discuss different ways to make water usage stretch. from Rain harvesting to Grey water to Hugelkulture... and anything in between. I want to learn more.

I know some areas of the country have strict laws about water harvesting and Grey water usage. for example here in San Diego they have only just now allowed the collection and use of grey water. Colorado has laws that prohibit collecting rain water...

Its only going to get more difficult to keep watering our animals and gardens as we use up the water in the US... Without water we wont be able to "backyard" anything.

Remember there are a hundred different ways to do things all of them right. Just some will be more efficient.

For a list of links click here


deb

 

[Sally Sunshine]

I would love to hear more as well! I have seen many people using rain water off the room for chickens, and it always worried me about the water sitting in the drums, will it go bad do I treat it first and all that! I would love to understand more on this specific process as well as other ways.

I think our wash water heading to the septic is such a waste too!

 

[lazy gardener]

OK, Deb... I don't have the same issues here in New England. We get plenty of rain... when it decides to rain. But, my well is not adequate to allow me to water my garden. So, here's the question of the day: Are there any concerns regarding using rain water from asphalt shingled roof? I have a rain barrel set up, with a gold fish who does a great job manageing mosquitoe larvae. He's fat and sassy, so, my initial thought is: rain water is fine for gardens. What about using it to water livestock? Any concerns regarding pathogens? Specifically related to gold fish, and otherwise related to contamination from the shingles? I'd love to hear from folks regarding how they are using rain water, specifically for watering live stock, use of fish to eat the bugs, and if people are doing any filtration/decontamination.

 

[perchie.girl]

I think unless your shingles are brand new there is very little concern.... except for the little bits of sand that are always being shed by shingles... for the most part I suspect they are benign. Easy to filter out and many many ways to do that.

I think the litmus test is that gold fish. Fat and healthy is a very good sign. I have a big tank of water for my horse that is fed by a trickle of water that comes through a float valve. I keep three or four gold fish in there for the same reason. I know Carp in general are a dirtier fish than others but they handle a very wide swing of water temps and salinity... If the water is deep enough they will over winter in an environment that would freeze the water a good six inches deep. I was told by an aquarium keeper that green algae is also a good sign of a healthy environment, So having fish in there to graze the Algae and any insects that take up residence is a very good idea.

IF you see Blue algae.... You will know the difference its less velvety and harder to scrape off stuff like rocks and tub walls. That is not a good sign. Blue Algae... Um er... Blue green.... Is not Algae at all but a cyanobacteria.... Some of it is poisonous.... Some of it like Spirulina Are actually good for us... Knowing the difference.... better safe than sorry in the home enviironment.

I would love to hear more about water treatment for water that comes off the roof. My years of working with aquariums tell me it would be a simple process of good filtration to make the water off the roof drink able.... for anyone.

Does your well water have an odor? Mine does and I drink it to no ill effect.... I am told its due to bacteria that take up residence in the pipes and their by product is a gas that smells like rotten eggs. my research tells me I need to bleach the well.... Havent done that yet.

deb

 

[perchie.girl]

I would love to hear more as well! I have seen many people using rain water off the room for chickens, and it always worried me about the water sitting in the drums, will it go bad do I treat it first and all that! I would love to understand more on this specific process as well as other ways.

I think our wash water heading to the septic is such a waste too!

Right now my shower is diverted to a french drain some where.... LOL. But I have plans to run it to a series of water barrels where the water will travel through each before coming out.... What I have read is it takes time for bacteria so set up residence and begin clearing the Effluent or organic materials from the water. ITs been a while since I read this so I may have it wrong.... But what I saw was a simple system.

I would like to eventually run the grey water through an artifical pond of sorts and raise up water hyacinth for further water purification. Hyacinth is not only pretty but it is very prolific and can be harvested for a bunch of different applications. In my case dried and used in the fireplace.

deb

 

[sarahsunshine]

OK, Deb... I don't have the same issues here in New England. We get plenty of rain... when it decides to rain. But, my well is not adequate to allow me to water my garden. So, here's the question of the day: Are there any concerns regarding using rain water from asphalt shingled roof? I have a rain barrel set up, with a gold fish who does a great job manageing mosquitoe larvae. He's fat and sassy, so, my initial thought is: rain water is fine for gardens. What about using it to water livestock? Any concerns regarding pathogens? Specifically related to gold fish, and otherwise related to contamination from the shingles? I'd love to hear from folks regarding how they are using rain water, specifically for watering live stock, use of fish to eat the bugs, and if people are doing any filtration/decontamination.

There is a gadget you can buy (or make) that is called a "first flush" system. Effectively what it does is it takes the first bunch of water from a rain storm and diverts it, then after that (presumably after your roof is clean) it is directed toward the tank. Most people use a cheap 250gallon tank - the kind you can find from the food industry/HCL... These you can usually find on Craigs List of Kijiji used for around $75-100 here. These are WAY MORE effective that the typical "water barrels" that only hold about 40 gallons and cost about $25-40 dollars ($100 or more new at home depot in my experience).

What we do here (Edmonton Alberta) is we have hooked up our downspout to the 250g tank. The tank is elevated for a gravity-feed hose attachement, and so that if it it overflows it goes directly into the garden.

Many people will hook up several 250 gallon tanks in series so that they can have more water.

Another thing you can do is to work on how yor garden is made. If your plants (I do mostly veggies) that require more water closer to the water source, then they get more water! If you make your garden so that it flows slightly downhill from the water source, then you can create an effectively self-watering system. You can increase the spread of water and ease of watering (instead of carrying it), by placing perforated weeping tile in the garden. Yes, I'm talking about the same stuff that is used to get water OUT of a farmer's field. Here's how:

Make your garden beds, and then dig out the path between them about 10" deep. Make sure the bottom of this trench is on contour, and that the water tank can feed directly into it. Place the weeping tile in the bottom of the trench. Cover up the weeping tile with wood chips (not cedar because it has toxins in it, but the very basic cheap stuff). Make sure there is an overflow somewhere as it goes down hill to your less water-loving plants in your garden. Do the same.

Now, you have a garden that in dry weather, you can just turn on the spiggot from your water tank, and it waters your entire garden. It also waters directly to the roots through the perforated weeping tile system, so you use less water.

Every 3-4 years you will need to dig out your weeping tile and re-do it, but since you used wood chips, they have now decomposed and you can just put them right on top of your veggie garden and you have new compost right in your garden!!!

Also, I can't say enough. In dry areas MULCH, MULCH, MULCH! This will reduce evaporation, adn increase the soil micorbiology which will drastically increase the health of your soil and plants!

Just for those who are skeptics of gardening in arid climates (Deb I sent these to you before), you should see these:

- Video of building a food forest in deserts of Jordan -

- initiatives in Africa to stop the spread of the Sahara (The Green Wall - http://www.csf-desertification.eu/c...ion/item/the-african-great-green-wall-project)
- A closer to home example is turning Tuscon's water strategy of harvesting rainwater in curb cuts instead of flushing it through the sewer system, which ultimately has changed the landscape in Tucson, changed the policy on curbs and curb cuts, and won many awards (http://www.motherearthliving.com/gardening/water-wise-oasis.aspx?PageId=1).

 

[Beekissed]

I was catching and using rain water last year but noticed the chickens were having increasing white, runny urates while using the rain water. As soon as I stopped and went back to well water, the stools changed back to normal. That was rain caught off of an old galvanized tin metal roof.

Since then I worry about using rain catchment water due to heavy metals in the rain(chem trails abound!) and possibly from our roofs, without having the ground strata to properly filter the water for consumption. Now I just use our well water and have a communal watering pan for all animals and this cuts down on waste from emptying the bottom water out of multiple waterers and rinsing before refilling. For chicks who cannot access the communal watering pan, I use nipple buckets, which also decrease waste tremendously by keeping the water clean and only dispensing it in droplets.

My grandmother used to do her dishes in dish pans set down into the sink and washed her dishes in lye soap, then would give the dishwater to the hogs and chickens because it often had food particles in it and she said it "kept them healthier"....and she was right. In researching natural antihelmentics, one listed was soap....as a surfactant, it dissolves the oils that serve to protect the skin of intestinal parasites as they dine in the acidic environment found in the small intestine. Once that protective oily coating is dissolved, the digestive acids can effectively kill the worms and their ovum.

This can increase the value of using grey water for watering livestock if one is careful about the types of soap they use. Salatin uses Basic H, a concentrated soap made from two soy proteins and was first used as a dietary supplement for fattening turkeys and cattle in the UK, but then was discovered to be a very powerful soap/cleanser as well. Using it in the water to provide the antihelmintic affect as well as to improve conditioning of the animals, while getting the cleansing power for one's clothing and dishes would seem to be a win/win/win situation.

I've used Basic H for cows and sheep with good effect....and have even tried it on myself!

Just a couple of the ideas and ways I try to conserve and how they conserved in the past that may tie into attempts to conserve now. Another way is if you are allowed to have an outhouse where you live, it can save you tons on water usage if you utilize it to its fullest.

Great thread, Deb!!

I think this is going to be more and more pertinent as weather patterns become more severe.

 

[sarahsunshine]

Right now my shower is diverted to a french drain some where.... LOL. But I have plans to run it to a series of water barrels where the water will travel through each before coming out.... What I have read is it takes time for bacteria so set up residence and begin clearing the Effluent or organic materials from the water. ITs been a while since I read this so I may have it wrong.... But what I saw was a simple system.

I would like to eventually run the grey water through an artifical pond of sorts and raise up water hyacinth for further water purification. Hyacinth is not only pretty but it is very prolific and can be harvested for a bunch of different applications. In my case dried and used in the fireplace.

deb

There is actually a very efficient process that can be dug up on the internet somewhere... it is legally used in Australia commonly for purifying water (I think it's a Biofilter). You can supposedly use it for blackwater, and drink out of the other end...

The basic system works something like this (it was a while ago so forgive my mistakes and lack of clarity):

Get a big vat (cattle trough, 250 gallon tank)

Make sure it has an inlet on one end on top, and an outlet on the bottom at the other end.

Fill bottom with a layer of wood chips or other organic material
Layer of geotextile
Layer of sand
Layer of pebbles,
Layer of small rocks


It should have a relatively long process time - several days for water to go in one end and out the other.

I would love to put a system like this on my blackwater BEFORE it goes in the septic! Then I'd never need my septic pumped!

I also think it's so silly, particularly in areas that are arid, that the black water systems and greywater systems on a residence (or industry) aren't kept separate. Greywater could go through a crude biofilter (easy and cheap to set up) and released to the environment.

A friend of mine did some 'underground' plumbing in his house. Effectively he separate black and greywater, and watered his vegetable garden from the greywater. Unfortunately he advertised his invention too broadly and the city came and made him change it back. The plumber who had to inspect it thought my friend had done a GREAT job. What was even better was that all my friend did was put in a couple plumbing pieces that you can divert from one pipe to a different pipe, so if it gets cold outside (think problem of frozen pipes), the greywater can go to the sewer system for that part of the year, and then you can redivert it to the garden/other purification system for warm weather.

I hope to do something similar for our new house! It is on a well that is known to get a little dry in the summer. If we can remove the garden water from total consumption and have it be simply 2nd use bath and laundry water, I believe it would completely solve that potential problem.

 

[sarahsunshine]

I was catching and using rain water last year but noticed the chickens were having increasing white, runny urates while using the rain water. As soon as I stopped and went back to well water, the stools changed back to normal. That was rain caught off of an old galvanized tin metal roof.

Since then I worry about using rain catchment water due to heavy metals in the rain(chem trails abound!) and possibly from our roofs, without having the ground strata to properly filter the water for consumption. Now I just use our well water and have a communal watering pan for all animals and this cuts down on waste from emptying the bottom water out of multiple waterers and rinsing before refilling. For chicks who cannot access the communal watering pan, I use nipple buckets, which also decrease waste tremendously by keeping the water clean and only dispensing it in droplets.

My grandmother used to do her dishes in dish pans set down into the sink and washed her dishes in lye soap, then would give the dishwater to the hogs and chickens because it often had food particles in it and she said it "kept them healthier"....and she was right. In researching natural antihelmentics, one listed was soap....as a surfactant, it dissolves the oils that serve to protect the skin of intestinal parasites as they dine in the acidic environment found in the small intestine. Once that protective oily coating is dissolved, the digestive acids can effectively kill the worms and their ovum.

This can increase the value of using grey water for watering livestock if one is careful about the types of soap they use. Salatin uses Basic H, a concentrated soap made from two soy proteins and was first used as a dietary supplement for fattening turkeys and cattle in the UK, but then was discovered to be a very powerful soap/cleanser as well. Using it in the water to provide the antihelmintic affect as well as to improve conditioning of the animals, while getting the cleansing power for one's clothing and dishes would seem to be a win/win/win situation.

I've used Basic H for cows and sheep with good effect....and have even tried it on myself!

Just a couple of the ideas and ways I try to conserve and how they conserved in the past that may tie into attempts to conserve now. Another way is if you are allowed to have an outhouse where you live, it can save you tons on water usage if you utilize it to its fullest.

Great thread, Deb!!

I think this is going to be more and more pertinent as weather patterns become more severe.

Cool - I will need to find some of that Basic H soap.. I wonder if it comes in another name in Canada?

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Quote: awesome!

I think unless your shingles are brand new there is very little concern.... except for the little bits of sand that are always being shed by shingles... for the most part I suspect they are benign. Easy to filter out and many many ways to do that.

I think the litmus test is that gold fish. Fat and healthy is a very good sign. I have a big tank of water for my horse that is fed by a trickle of water that comes through a float valve. I keep three or four gold fish in there for the same reason. I know Carp in general are a dirtier fish than others but they handle a very wide swing of water temps and salinity... If the water is deep enough they will over winter in an environment that would freeze the water a good six inches deep. I was told by an aquarium keeper that green algae is also a good sign of a healthy environment, So having fish in there to graze the Algae and any insects that take up residence is a very good idea.

IF you see Blue algae.... You will know the difference its less velvety and harder to scrape off stuff like rocks and tub walls. That is not a good sign. Blue Algae... Um er... Blue green.... Is not Algae at all but a cyanobacteria.... Some of it is poisonous.... Some of it like Spirulina Are actually good for us... Knowing the difference.... better safe than sorry in the home enviironment.

I would love to hear more about water treatment for water that comes off the roof. My years of working with aquariums tell me it would be a simple process of good filtration to make the water off the roof drink able.... for anyone.

Does your well water have an odor? Mine does and I drink it to no ill effect.... I am told its due to bacteria that take up residence in the pipes and their by product is a gas that smells like rotten eggs. my research tells me I need to bleach the well.... Havent done that yet.

deb

can you show your tank set up for the horses ? I would love to see how you provide for the fish as well! sounds very cool!