Welsh Harlequin Breeding Thread - People who are breeding or want to breed their WH's talk

[Tahai]

Just thought I'd show the coloration difference between Top Show Quality Welsh Harlequin and production quality Welsh Harlequin from Holderread's at 9 weeks old.

The 2 in the very back, up by the fence, and the one on the far left are TSQ. They have fully colored necks, distinctive bands, and dark bills. You can see the production quality birds do not all have full neck coloration and some have muddy bills. It will be interesting to see what happens to them when they get their nuptial plumage.

 

[NCFF]

My WH from Metzers are 8 weeks old. I lucked out and got 7 Ducks and 3 Drakes. I see what you are saying about the juvenile color distinction. It seen that some people think that the darker color right off the bat is better. Others say that what matters most is the color they are after they molt( not full true color till 2 yrs old) Like you said it will be interesting to see how the colors mature.
My Ducks all have dark bills and good neck rings, except for 1 she does not have full neck color and the muddy bill.
If you were picking today, the girl in the front right looking at the camera, would she be a cull?

Also I wanted to open the discussion up to the notion that the color genes actually comes from the male? Or so I have read

Which line of Holdereads WH has better egg production?
Which birds seem truer to size?

Any comments from all you Holderead WH owners

 

[KatGold]

Had I known more about Welsh Harlequins when I first got ducks, I probably would have given them a try. But instead, I went with Australian Spotteds (which I adore).

My Spots don't lay as well as I expected. I don't know if it's the Central Texas heat or what. I am interested in a nice duck that will give me plenty of eggs (though that's not my only reason for keeping ducks).

Right now, I have a broody BCM. I would like to put some duck eggs under her. My Spots won't give me any and I've got a growing fascination with Welsh Harlequins.

My question to you folks (you knew I'd finally get to it) is if any of you who have hatching eggs live in or near Central Texas. I know I can buy hatching eggs and have them shipped, but I'm trying to keep costs down and would rather a car trip to a reasonable distance.

So, are you out there anyone? I'm not looking for show stock, just a small handful of hatching eggs from a nice layer.

Alternately, do you think giving my Spots extended light would help? We have long days here in TX, but their coop has a full roof and it's dim and well-shaded.

Thanks!

 

[Tahai]

Hi NCFF,

If I were culling for color, I would not cull her. She's a gold-phase, and definitely female (quack), so her colors are expected to be muted. I would wait with her.

I'm raising for eggs, though, so color isn't of much personal concern. I got the TSQ to breed for local 4-H kids. I'm hoping at least 1 of them is a drake. 2 would be better, as I could then sell all other drakes.

 

[Dances with Ducks]

My WH from Metzers are 8 weeks old. I lucked out and got 7 Ducks and 3 Drakes. I see what you are saying about the juvenile color distinction. It seen that some people think that the darker color right off the bat is better. Others say that what matters most is the color they are after they molt( not full true color till 2 yrs old) Like you said it will be interesting to see how the colors mature.
My Ducks all have dark bills and good neck rings, except for 1 she does not have full neck color and the muddy bill.
If you were picking today, the girl in the front right looking at the camera, would she be a cull?

Also I wanted to open the discussion up to the notion that the color genes actually comes from the male? Or so I have read

Which line of Holdereads WH has better egg production?
Which birds seem truer to size?

Any comments from all you Holderead WH owners

Regarding the inheritance question, it's true that the gold vs silver phase will be determined by what gene comes from the father. I can't use all the correct terminology but I'll try to explain what I know.
On the segment of the genes that code for silver or gold, the male inherits from both his mother and father, while the female can only inherit from her father. It's like the X and Y in people, Women are XX and men are XY so the genes on the "leg" of the Y that is missing on men can only show what came from the mother. On the genes not on the "missing leg" segments it will be the dominant genes that show through regardless of whether it came from the mother or the father, (or for a lot of traits it will be a combination rather than a dominant or recessive choice). With ducks its the females that are missing a "leg", the males have that leg from both the father and mother. The Silver gene is dominant so a male can have a recessive gold gene and still be silver.
If the drake had a silver father and a gold mother he could produce some female gold offspring as well as silver daughters, but all his sons would appear to be silver if his mate is silver. Half (or was it a quarter?) of his sons would carry the recessive gold gene like him. A silver drake with a recessive gold gene mated with a gold hen could produce some gold sons as well as daughters.
You can do sex linking if you have a gold drake (which would necessarily have the two recessive gold genes in order to show the gold phase) and a silver hen (one silver gene), because the females could only inherit the gold gene from the father whereas the sons would get one dominant silver gene from the mother and display silver.
Sorry if that sounds confusing, I had to sit down with some books and study and chart this all out for a few months before it stuck in my head and its still a little fuzzy.

 

[poultry09]

I am so excited! I just got confirmed on Holderreads waiting list this fall for a trio of show quality silver welsh harlequins along with a trio of cinnamon runners and a trio of dewlap Toulouse geese all of which are going to be SQ or ESQ!!

 

[Ravie]

Hello, more-experienced Welshie owners,

I have a question.

I received my ducklings from Holderread's. 4 girls and 6 boys (darnit!). When they arrived, it was clear to me that 3 girls were gold phase and all the rest were silvers. The different was very obvious.

The ducklings are now 10 days old. And many of the ones I had marked silver (they truly had black heads, not brown!), now look the same as the golds. No black at all. Some are still very dark silver in color. Is this normal? Can duckling color change like that?

 

[Tahai]

Hi Ravie,

I have 13 9 week old WH from Holderread's.

While 4 of my paler colored WH ended up being gold-phase, 2 of them did not and are poorly colored Silvers. All the experts say Welsh Harlequin colors are not truly developed until they are about 2 years old, so there is a chance that these 2 ducks will come into nice strong colors after the molt.

Also, if you determined their sex from bill color, you very well may be surprised. Dave Holderread has said that bill color is no longer reliable in sexing his day old WH. He apparently lost that trait as he bred toward other improvements. If you are one of those rare people able to vent sex, I'm envious of you!

As they age, you won't be able to use bill color to sex them until they begin laying. I have ducks with yellow bills and drakes with black bills. I guess what I'm saying is: Don't cull till you see the curl

 

[Ravie]

Hi Ravie,

I have 13  9 week old WH from Holderread's.

 While 4 of my paler colored WH ended up being gold-phase, 2 of them did not and are poorly colored Silvers.  All the experts say Welsh Harlequin colors are not truly developed until they are  about 2 years old, so there is a chance that these 2 ducks will come into nice strong colors after the molt.

Also, if you determined their sex from bill color, you very well may be surprised.  Dave Holderread has said that bill color is no longer reliable in sexing his day old WH.  He apparently lost that trait as he bred toward other improvements.  If you are one of those rare people able to vent sex, I'm envious of you!

As they age, you won't be able to use bill color to sex them until they begin laying.  I have ducks with yellow bills and drakes with black bills.  I guess what I'm saying is: Don't cull till you see the curl 

Hi Tahai,

I just noticed your last response to me about bill sexing Holderread birds. I will hang on to everyone for now and see what happens. I don't know how to vent sex, but am sorely tempted to try it one day. I don't want to hurt anyone though!

I am dying to catch my birds and check for trimmed tail feathers. It is probably too late to notice now!


Thank you for your help. I am hoping one of the golds ends up being a drake. That would make this sexing stuff much easier!

 

[DUCKGIRL89]

I ordered 6 TSQ from them, vent sexed them when I received them and ended up with 3 pairs (Not TO bad) and then lost a drake a few weeks later to a growing disorder or something! He was a TINY ducky. Something wrong with him. Anyway! I now have the 2 drakes and 3 hens, (Also a couple other breeds which are all hens!) and they are so cute! I was wondering though if all your ducklings started feathering out with fawn colored feathers...? I'm really hoping its just the way they are feathering out, cause I will not be keeping any if they keep the fawn color. Not the standard.

I really need updated pics of mine so you can help me out.

Also, do any of you think I can get a nice pair outta these babies that is worth breeding?? I have a nice pair now from metzers (Got really lucky there!!!) and I want a nice pair from holderread as well, and maybe add a couple more hens from some other breeders. I plan to order more from holderread next spring though.