- Jul 26, 2010
- 2,969
- 3
- 171
You aren't doing enough or doing it correctly, if you were, it would be over and done with.
'Will she ever learn' is your title of your thread. That to me, says, despite getting tons of advice and suggestions here, you're still thinking this is something that will be solved with out you, passively. The DOG will just CHANGE. So maybe start by just not even saying stuff like that - instead say, 'I'm going to change what I do and it's going to work - starting now'.
Dogs don't just stop doing things. 'They' don't 'learn'(it sounds like the dog goes and reads a book and comes back and says, 'I learned'). They have to be trained not to do things.
The question is, will you figure out how to teach her appropriately?
You aren't being quick enough, consistent enough, forceful enough, SOMETHING, when you punish your dog. I can't tell because I'm not there watching what you do, but you're not doing something correctly.
Do you REALLY think that you're going to find some magic post on a bulletin board thread, and that's going to solve it? You need someone who can watch what you're doing and tell you what you're doing wrong. You need to think about what you're doing, think about the dog is reacting, no one can 100% hand you this, you need to an extent, to teach yourself. Even if you had lessons once a week you have to work the dog yourself the other 6 days a week.
First of all, you don't give enough detail in your posts, for anyone to tell you anything that you need to change.
Secondly, when people describe what they do, it almost ALWAYS sounds perfectly reasonable, sensible, by the book, because that is how the person thinks it is. It's when an experienced person LOOKS at them that they see what is wrong.
Generally?
First: People aren't consistent. Dog is doing something obnoxious. I don't want to get up from the TV, I'm tired, I was at work all day, blah blah blah. You wanna trained dog? You have to be consistent. That means every single time it does something, it gets punished.
Second: People aren't definite enough and quick enough. The punishment, doesn't mean anything.
Third: They do not change the relationship. The fundamental problem is not 'oh you have to use that kind of leash' or 'oh you need a clicker'. THE PROBLEM IS THE RELATIONSHIP.
Watch Cesar Milan work with dogs sometime. Yeah he does and says some dumb things, but just in general, look at how he uses his body, and how he makes corrections. He FIRST establishes authority over the dog. No I don't agree with every detail of what he does, but overall, he does what every single decent dog trainer has ever done - he establishes first of all, that he is to be obeyed, and he is not intimidated, not scared, not cowed.
And I have sad news for you - your dog is spoiled. It doesn't matter what you do or don't do with treats. How do I know your dog is spoiled? Because of the way you tell me it is behaving. What does spoiled mean? It means it is not behaving itself, it is doing things that are inconvenient, annoying, dangerous or all three, and when you try to stop it, you can't. Why does any dog not behave? Because it has not been trained appropriately. When you don't train a dog appropriately and effectively, you spoil it. Spoiled means, not useful, not good.
Once you have spoiled a dog, it takes 10 times more effort to get it straightened out. It takes more corrections, the dog keeps trying the behavior more times. It takes being super consistent, super firm, super dramatic, and never, ever, ever, ever, allowing it to carry through an action you don't want. All the time and energy that SHOULD have been put into the dog, now, it takes 10 times that.
Dogs that pop up after you punish them and wag their tail, especially if they go right back to what they were doing that you punished them for, you haven't gotten through what you are trying to teach them. Again, not quick enough, consistent enough, forceful enough, or all of the above.
So you almost wrecked your bike. Then walk the dog for an hour, or put it on a treadmill, or tailgate it off the back of a truck, ATV, horse and cart, whatev.
Are you working on obedience with the dog daily for 30 minutes? Hm? By this time, if you were, the dog would know how to make a three course breakfast. Are you doing that? I'm going to bet no.
If you work your dog on basic obedience daily, he will be more controllable around the house.
Say I have a dog that does not lie down when I tell it to. And say this is not a momentarily distracted little soft, cooperative pup, but a spoiled older dog who doesn't think he wants to listen and obey. DOWN is the LAST command a tough, spoiled dog wants to obey. So that's where I start. I say 'DOWN'. The dog has to START lying down immediately. If he does not slam himself into that floor, I am going to slam him into that floor myself. If he growls, he's going to get his butt kicked, and a muzzle put on and then we'll drill the down for a little while longer. No harm in doing 20-30 downs in a day. And by the end of that practice, I bet that dog, when he hears 'DOWN', he's going to lay down.
This is NOT how you train a novice dog or a dog that you already have his cooperation and an understanding that you are the leader. THAT is a game. It's called if I do this, I get rewarded.
THIS DOG is not responding to that.
Obedience is not about 'sit Precious, and I will give you a cookie', or 'sit Precious, and I will click the clicker'. It's not even about 'Sit Precious, and one day we shall win a little piece of ribbon at a dog show'.
Obedience is a life or death thing. One day, this dog is going to run out in the street, and before he gets there, you are going to scream, 'DOOOOOOOOOOWN!!!' and you are going to save this dog's life, instead of seeing him splattered into smithereens. It really is that simple.
Obedience, especially once the dog is ruined like this, is about, 'guess what, this is not optional. You don't think about this, you don't contemplate. You don't get a Courtesy Second. You do it. When I say it, you do it. I am the boss and if I tell you to down, you lay down, or all sorts of he** is going to break loose, and most of it is going to land on you'.
Then what happens is, when he goes running at someone, you say DOWN. And he needs to lay down, right then, right there.
In other words, if you keep YOURSELF to a discplined standard, your dog will, too.
What I do not do, is give a command when I am not in a position to make it happen. Dog has on a chain collar. And if he's a problem, he probably has a short leash left on that collar all the time. I say DOWN. The dog has NO PART of a second to start laying down, he better leave skid marks when he lays down.
Dogs need exercise, and this one needs a lot. But this is not totally about that - this is about how you train. You're not effective. You need to go to a dog training class, with that dog, and learn how to train.
You could go to a class, you could get a book (forget the nicey nicey methods, not going to work), you could even just stand there and watch a good trainer work.
Yeah, I know, you already know everything and don't need a class, can't afford it, can't get a ride to it...or any of the other many excuses people here constantly give.
Work it out. If you would actually get some help, do something, the problem would end.
'Will she ever learn' is your title of your thread. That to me, says, despite getting tons of advice and suggestions here, you're still thinking this is something that will be solved with out you, passively. The DOG will just CHANGE. So maybe start by just not even saying stuff like that - instead say, 'I'm going to change what I do and it's going to work - starting now'.
Dogs don't just stop doing things. 'They' don't 'learn'(it sounds like the dog goes and reads a book and comes back and says, 'I learned'). They have to be trained not to do things.
The question is, will you figure out how to teach her appropriately?
You aren't being quick enough, consistent enough, forceful enough, SOMETHING, when you punish your dog. I can't tell because I'm not there watching what you do, but you're not doing something correctly.
Do you REALLY think that you're going to find some magic post on a bulletin board thread, and that's going to solve it? You need someone who can watch what you're doing and tell you what you're doing wrong. You need to think about what you're doing, think about the dog is reacting, no one can 100% hand you this, you need to an extent, to teach yourself. Even if you had lessons once a week you have to work the dog yourself the other 6 days a week.
First of all, you don't give enough detail in your posts, for anyone to tell you anything that you need to change.
Secondly, when people describe what they do, it almost ALWAYS sounds perfectly reasonable, sensible, by the book, because that is how the person thinks it is. It's when an experienced person LOOKS at them that they see what is wrong.
Generally?
First: People aren't consistent. Dog is doing something obnoxious. I don't want to get up from the TV, I'm tired, I was at work all day, blah blah blah. You wanna trained dog? You have to be consistent. That means every single time it does something, it gets punished.
Second: People aren't definite enough and quick enough. The punishment, doesn't mean anything.
Third: They do not change the relationship. The fundamental problem is not 'oh you have to use that kind of leash' or 'oh you need a clicker'. THE PROBLEM IS THE RELATIONSHIP.
Watch Cesar Milan work with dogs sometime. Yeah he does and says some dumb things, but just in general, look at how he uses his body, and how he makes corrections. He FIRST establishes authority over the dog. No I don't agree with every detail of what he does, but overall, he does what every single decent dog trainer has ever done - he establishes first of all, that he is to be obeyed, and he is not intimidated, not scared, not cowed.
And I have sad news for you - your dog is spoiled. It doesn't matter what you do or don't do with treats. How do I know your dog is spoiled? Because of the way you tell me it is behaving. What does spoiled mean? It means it is not behaving itself, it is doing things that are inconvenient, annoying, dangerous or all three, and when you try to stop it, you can't. Why does any dog not behave? Because it has not been trained appropriately. When you don't train a dog appropriately and effectively, you spoil it. Spoiled means, not useful, not good.
Once you have spoiled a dog, it takes 10 times more effort to get it straightened out. It takes more corrections, the dog keeps trying the behavior more times. It takes being super consistent, super firm, super dramatic, and never, ever, ever, ever, allowing it to carry through an action you don't want. All the time and energy that SHOULD have been put into the dog, now, it takes 10 times that.
Dogs that pop up after you punish them and wag their tail, especially if they go right back to what they were doing that you punished them for, you haven't gotten through what you are trying to teach them. Again, not quick enough, consistent enough, forceful enough, or all of the above.
So you almost wrecked your bike. Then walk the dog for an hour, or put it on a treadmill, or tailgate it off the back of a truck, ATV, horse and cart, whatev.
Are you working on obedience with the dog daily for 30 minutes? Hm? By this time, if you were, the dog would know how to make a three course breakfast. Are you doing that? I'm going to bet no.
If you work your dog on basic obedience daily, he will be more controllable around the house.
Say I have a dog that does not lie down when I tell it to. And say this is not a momentarily distracted little soft, cooperative pup, but a spoiled older dog who doesn't think he wants to listen and obey. DOWN is the LAST command a tough, spoiled dog wants to obey. So that's where I start. I say 'DOWN'. The dog has to START lying down immediately. If he does not slam himself into that floor, I am going to slam him into that floor myself. If he growls, he's going to get his butt kicked, and a muzzle put on and then we'll drill the down for a little while longer. No harm in doing 20-30 downs in a day. And by the end of that practice, I bet that dog, when he hears 'DOWN', he's going to lay down.
This is NOT how you train a novice dog or a dog that you already have his cooperation and an understanding that you are the leader. THAT is a game. It's called if I do this, I get rewarded.
THIS DOG is not responding to that.
Obedience is not about 'sit Precious, and I will give you a cookie', or 'sit Precious, and I will click the clicker'. It's not even about 'Sit Precious, and one day we shall win a little piece of ribbon at a dog show'.
Obedience is a life or death thing. One day, this dog is going to run out in the street, and before he gets there, you are going to scream, 'DOOOOOOOOOOWN!!!' and you are going to save this dog's life, instead of seeing him splattered into smithereens. It really is that simple.
Obedience, especially once the dog is ruined like this, is about, 'guess what, this is not optional. You don't think about this, you don't contemplate. You don't get a Courtesy Second. You do it. When I say it, you do it. I am the boss and if I tell you to down, you lay down, or all sorts of he** is going to break loose, and most of it is going to land on you'.
Then what happens is, when he goes running at someone, you say DOWN. And he needs to lay down, right then, right there.
In other words, if you keep YOURSELF to a discplined standard, your dog will, too.
What I do not do, is give a command when I am not in a position to make it happen. Dog has on a chain collar. And if he's a problem, he probably has a short leash left on that collar all the time. I say DOWN. The dog has NO PART of a second to start laying down, he better leave skid marks when he lays down.
Dogs need exercise, and this one needs a lot. But this is not totally about that - this is about how you train. You're not effective. You need to go to a dog training class, with that dog, and learn how to train.
You could go to a class, you could get a book (forget the nicey nicey methods, not going to work), you could even just stand there and watch a good trainer work.
Yeah, I know, you already know everything and don't need a class, can't afford it, can't get a ride to it...or any of the other many excuses people here constantly give.
Work it out. If you would actually get some help, do something, the problem would end.
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