What am I doing wrong? o.o

[welsummerchicks]

Agree 100%.

 

[WhetzelMomma]

Quote:
I used to work in a Zoo near here, and we used Snapple bottle lids for clickers. They make a nice loud popping click when you press the middles!

 

[patandchickens]

I keep her on a leash, but not leashed to ME.

guess I'll try that also.

Um, yes, that is the point, in order for you to limit her behavior with the leash it has to be attached to something

And 'to you' is going to be more useful than 'to furniture' in most cases, because when she is leashed to YOU you can prevent anything she might do whereas having her tied to heavy furniture or a hook on the wall merely limits the physical area in which she can continue to do whatever she wants.

You have to prevent her from experiencing OPPORTUNITIES to be really naughty, that is until you are really sure she can handle it without actually being naughty.

Quote:
Um, wouldn't you be WORKING on that??? She is not 'happily doing any trick or command you ask her to do' if she will only do it in a quiet room with no distractions when she doesn't happen to feel like doing anything else. You have to gradually TEACH her to ignore distractions and focus on what you want her to do. Again this is not the dog's responsibility nor is it something that should be automatic, it is a lesson you need to teach her, separately with each command/behavior.

You start out with just a minor distraction. It can be useful to think of distractions as varying not only by type but also by intensity, duration and distance from the dog. Start with a low-intensity not-very-stimulating distraction that is far from the dog... whatever you think you will still be able to get her to do the behavior despite. Have her do the behavior in the presence of that distant mild ignorable distraction maybe ten times. Then bring the distraction a hair closer. Have her do it some more. Bring it closer. Lather rinse repeat -- preferably NOT all in one big session. This is really something that works best IMO a few minutes at a time, repeated as frequently thru the day as you can manage.

Teaching self-control via 'stay' (first without distraction, then gradually with more distraction) and increasingly-tempting 'leave its' would also be useful, since it sounds like to the extent that any of this is her problem it is a matter of not having practiced much self-control.

The big thing is to, like they say about courtroom lawyers questioning witnesses, "never ask a question you don't already know the answer to". Don't ask the dog to do something unless you're like 95% sure the dog will do it. By extension then, this means you have to keep the dog out of situations where the only way to prevent naughtiness is for you to "ask" something that you really doubt the dog can/will comply with. PREVENT if you think the dog is not up to self-control in that situation yet; and then set up lots of situations where you ARE about 95% sure the dog will do what you want, and slowly ratchet things up til that includes more and more situations in life.


Pat​

 

[FireTigeris]

Ok, when working with the exuberant guide dog puppy Jack 1L8 we taught him kennel manners.

He goes in on "Kennel In" he gets himself calm, he is not allowed to stand when we approach the kennel (to let him out) "Jack down" he lays down he is calm enough to bring out. "Kennel out" (he exits and stand/stay to receive the leash or harness) to people on the leash.

If he starts to jump he gets a leash correction, "Jack, No!"

If he pulls he gets a leash correction, lunges, or tries to run.

This took two or three weeks we bribed people to come over and help- they would knock, we would kennel him, one of us would seat the guest the other waited till he chilled out and then brought him in (On the leash).

Eventually people coming over (because it was frequent- we bribe with good food) made him go and lay down in the kennel w/o a command. we would then at first go get him on the leash still.

after a while he understood 'visitor manners' and would go to the kennel or lay down where he was and 'stay' w/o command until he was called. (unless there was a kid involved, then all bets were off)

We always kept an extra leash at the door so we could leash him if he needed it.

 

[patandchickens]

That reminds me. Does your dog (o.p.) have to work for his meals, or does he just 'get' them?

I think you would find that if he only got them for sitting quietly and calmly in his crate while you put the bowl down, or something like that, he would VERY QUICKLY learn to go to his crate and sit there quietly and calmly to let you put his bowl down. The same idea can be extended to other things.

(Please understand I am totally not suggesting you withhold meals as punishment for not doing what you wanted him to; rather, I am suggesting that you set him a reasonable and doable-if-slightly-challenging task that he has to do before you put the bowl down. You can get several tasks out of each meal if you don't give him all his food at once.)

It's another chance to work on 'self control despite desires to do something more exciting and random'

Pat

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

She gets exersized daily,

whether it's by playing fetch, playing ball, or walking. We walk everyday.

Personally, I suspect THIS is the root of much of your problem. I cannot help but wonder if your idea of what constitutes sufficient exercise is actually meeting her PHYSICAL NEED for exercise. It can be pretty amazing just now much work some breeds need daily in order to have their exercise needs met. Border Collies and Cattle Dogs are dogs who are meant to really work hard. If you ever watch BCs work sheep, you'll see them go all day without flagging! Additionally they are a breed that excels at working from a distance using hand commands and whistle/clicker commands. They are independent workers and crave the mental stimulus and sense of satisfaction that this kind of teamwork gives them. They are not indoor dogs and rarely do well as couch-potato pets. Merely playing ball or going on a walk does not offer them the kind of mental stimulation that they need. They need more than just exercise--they need a purpose in life.

I strongly recommend that if you cannot do actual herding together, then get started in agility, but put this animal to WORK. I think she is begging for this with every action she takes. She needs a leader who will help her fulfill her needs and who is strong enough mentally and emotionally to be her leader while being disciplined enough to help her learn discipline.

JMO


Rusty​

 

[BeccaB00]

Quote:
I make her sit in her crate while I prepare the meal, and when it's

done I say "wait" until I get the bowl down in her crate. she waits, and I say 'go' once the door

is shut. And she starts eating. What I'm saying is, ANYWHERE inside, she'll do commands rather well.

It's outside, and TEACHING the commands I'm having trouble with. She knows to sit and wait by the door

BEFRORE I'll open it and take her out, like I said she sits and waits for her meals until I give her premission.



Rusty Hills Farm: I know, Thats what Im thinking kinda.

My aunt has raised border collies for over 12 years.

all inside dogs.. I thought it'd be nice to try this breed out being her dogs are so sweet and CALM.

( yes I did do my research and i did know this was going to be a hyper breed )

And I know I'll be told to get her to help me, but for one, she doesn't do herding or agility or any

kind of exersize, she simply lets them out side whenever they want. Her dogs don't run away, and she

also lives extra far away from my family. She just visits.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Um, that's not what I'm hearing when you say "she bolts onto the sofa", "she runs around the house like an idiot and I can't stop her", "she crashes into people", "she paws real hard at people", etc.

That is not a dog who is "doing commands rather well", it is a dog out of control. (Well, I guess I'm assuming you are *catching* her about to do those things and *telling* her to do something else instead, but you probably are, yes?)

Pat

 

[BeccaB00]

Quote:
Um, that's not what I'm hearing when you say "she bolts onto the sofa", "she runs around the house like an idiot and I can't stop her", "she crashes into people", "she paws real hard at people", etc.

That is not a dog who is "doing commands rather well", it is a dog out of control. (Well, I guess I'm assuming you are *catching* her about to do those things and *telling* her to do something else instead, but you probably are, yes?)

Pat

no ma'am I'm talking about commands she KNOWS.

 

[patandchickens]

You mentioned "sit" and "down", and working on "stay".

If she truly KNEW those things (in any meaningful sense of the term) she would do them even when she'd rather do something else like bolt around the house.

If she won't sit or down or stay when you ask her to EVERY WHERE IN EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE, then instead of worrying about teaching her new commands (tho of course I'm not saying you shouldn't) I would suggest working on really teaching her to fully understand and obey THOSE things. Despite distractions etcetera.

Dogs do not generalize well. Just because a dog does it in a quiet room when there's nothing better to do does NOT mean she should be expected to do it in other situations unless you have actually TAUGHT her to do so, in a gradual and systematic way.

You know what I mean?

(edited to give an example: like, Russell has a really solid recall -- even if he is chasing a bird across the yard 200 ft away, if I say "c'mere Ro!" he whips around and comes to me, with virtually no exception -- and a really solid sit -- last T'giving I dropped the turkey as I was stuffing it and he came rushing across the kitchen to 'help', but I said "Russie! Sit! Get out! Stay!" and bless his heart he stopped and sat, then trotted to the far end of the kitchen and stayed there while I cleaned up. I would say he knows recall and sit, to a pretty good degree. However we have only relatively recently started really working on 'heel'. He heels 95% just fine around the house when nothing else is going on, or on a quiet sidewalk or even with someone walking past ignoring us... but if one of the kids runs past or if we are outdoors and he smells voles I cannot count on him. So I would say he is learning heel but does not yet really have it, you know? So I do not ask him to heel if I think the distractions are likely to be too much for him. If there were some compelling need for him to heel (like sometimes when we are walking in town) but I do not think he's up to it, I don't ask him to heel, I find some other way of managing him (take his leash up short or hold his collar, or turn a different way, or etc))

Pat