What are differences between buying from a hatchery versus a breeder?

[olds cool]

Quote:
Just a correction, hatcheries got their birds from breeders.

It began with breeders. Just as puppy mills began with someone thinking a show dog was cute, and just bred the life out of it to get a bunch of puppies to sell.


Getting birds from a hatchery and culling them back to the SOP is very hard, actually, especially when you have such a horrible base. I'd like to see someone successfully use strictly hatchery Houdans to get back to the true Houdan. . . .

Also as a note, hatcheries are not as diverse as you may think. They've been using the same stock for decades, if they actually added new blood, it would be good quality blood, which you'd see now and then. I personally have yet to see Easter Eggers truly change, or Wyandottes get any better or fluffier, or even Rhode Island Reds get any meatier or darker in color.


I agree, hatcheries are a great starter for a new person, but to me they are very much like a puppy mill, - breeding in large quantities, and solely for profit.

I know your first statement has to be right, "hatcheries got their birds from breeders". This is why we know the gene pool is there. It may take raising a great many birds to uncover some traits depending on what breed we refer to. In most cases we can't expect to do it with a half dozen birds that's for sure. It may take raising like 200 and cull down to the best 3 pairs. Then raise all you can and cull hard again. But I believe genetically speaking, it can be done. Anyone who has done selective inbreeding knows that it can bring disappointing but also very rewarding surprises. Even in the same mating.
I never meant that hatchery birds would not be a challenge. But I believe more can be accomplished than some tend to think.
Another thought is that it is hard for the inexperienced to buy truely good brood stock from a serious breeder because a serious breeder will not place that stock in the hands of the inexperienced for any amount of money. Because to the serious breeder it's not about money, it's about love and dedication. Mind you, this is just my opinion.

 

[shelleyd2008]

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Watch the hatching eggs auctions here. They frequently have pictures of their stock (very important), but also you can see how many people bid on them. Of course you always have the "hot" item of the year that everyone wants to bid on (last year it seemed to be blue laced red wyandottes). After you watch them intensely for a while, you can compare the stock of people selling the same breeds. Certain breeds like Ameraucana's and Marans, egg color is just as important as the birds. This can be more difficult though, as egg colors are hard to photograph. (especially blue eggs)

For me, I look for breeders that sell a few different breeds. There are exceptions of course, but in my opinion someone that sells 20 different breeds can't really focus on improving each breed.



I totally agree with this last statement, there's just so much work involved in perfecting one breed, how can a breeder raise 20??
Currently, I've got probably 7 different 'breeds', though I have at least 2 varieties (colors) in all but one breed. I am reducing my flock this year so I can have more resources to work on the breeds I want to improve, specifically serama, OEGB, and bantam cochins. Having multiple breeds requires a lot of resources for housing and feed, I just don't see how someone can have so many different ones without losing focus.

Of course I'll still have my not-so-good silkies and some of my hatchery birds (EE's mostly...the extra BCM boy will need someone to play with!), but for the most part I'm going down to only the 'good' breeders.

 

[speckledhen]

One reason, aside from the obvious better-looking, closer-to-standard birds from good breeders, is longevity. I am sick of almost every hatchery hen I have dying from internal laying. Have lost 9 and am soon to lose the 10th one to the same darn thing. The breeder birds are going strong. Have only lost one to an egg related issue when a Delaware hen had a huge egg-within-an-egg that dropped into her abdomen and there was no say to save her. Have lost RIRs, SLW, Buff Orp and Barred Rock hens to internal laying, all hatchery stock. That is a genetic/hormone based reproductive malfunction that I could do without seeing again so I plan to get all my birds from good breeders from now on, except perhaps the occasional bantam.

 

[elmo]

Quote:
Right. If customers want a simple, easy way to order a bunch of chicks to arrive through the mail at their door mostly alive (or easily replaced if they don't make it through the trip) that will mostly survive to become hens that will lay eggs for a couple of years and then be replaced with a new batch, hatcheries certainly meet that need.

However, sometimes I wonder when looking through the Diseases section of this forum how many illnesses have their beginnings in the lack of genetic diversity and/or quality of the original stock. I don't really value "breed type" because I have mutt chickens from a backyard breeder, but boy are they healthy and sturdy! There may well be something to that idea of hybrid vigor.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

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I agree, I was shocked to see the size of the show-quality buff orpingtons! The SQ hens were as big as the hatchery roosters I've seen...the SQ roosters were twice as big.

We try to keep a few hatchery Buff Orpingtons for our county fair. As the superintendent of the poultry show, I can set up the coops like I want. This last year, I placed a hatchery Buff Orpington hen next to an Exhibition Buff Orpington pullet. The hen was about 2. The pullet 4 months. Folks guessed the pullet at a year or more. Can't wait till this fall when we will have fully mature Orpingtons to show off.

 

[Illia]

Yes, I must admit, I like keeping just a couple hatchery birds around to compare them to the good quality ones

Such a HUGE difference.

 

[joe17]

I raise silkies and they are ONE of the most messed up chickens hatcheries sell. They rarely have feet feathers and very small crests. When say this I am not talking about the "exception" chicken that ends up looking pretty good. I have had that happen before but I still sold the bird because it still had it's faults. Why would you buy from a hatchery just because of the genetic diversity? Good breeder know how to line breed. Hatcheries probably just breed everything together! I find it funny that hatcheries put quality pictures on their site yet their actual stock is far from it! I would love to see the original "breeder" birds they started with. Does anyone know how long they probably bred those same birds? I wonder if they started with say 100 birds and only sold and bred from that original 100 birds. They may bring in new blood every few years.

 

[averytds]

Two blue Silkies. One hatchery approx 4 months old, one breeder approx 3 months old. Not the extreme, more the norm. We've had many from both sources.

 

[Pyncheon guy]

Great Topic!!!! Lots of valuable information..... My heart goes out to the unknowing exhibitor who purchased hatchery stock and then takes them to a large show hoping to win something. Many times I've seen these birds placed at the end of the line or worse...disqualified...and the unsuspecting exhibitor is at a loss for words.....gets discouraged and never shows again. I do like when the Hatchery does explain to the customer that their birds are NOT show quality, but do resemble the breed/variety in general. I started showing in 1967 and had poultry nine years prior to that.... I've had my share of wins (including a best of show) and FAR MORE losses than can be counted..... Myself...and so many others, breed and exhibit poultry for the breed itself and knowing that we are perpetuating a breed or bloodline that easily could be lost. There are "Breeders" of poultry and there are "Keepers" of poultry....ALL are needed and everyone has their "niche" in the poultry world....find what you like and want to do and "GO for it"!!!! I've had 11 lambs born so far this season and expecting chicks to start hatching this week-end.... Hope everyone has a great hatching season!

 

[colby318]

The byc member who originally asked this question has 3100 posts.