What Color Is This Chick? Genetic Questions Please help?

[Yoda]

Ok I asked on other forums and was told that it is a purple BS hen. My question is concerning genetics cause that is where I get confused. Purple BS is a sex link color correct? The only males in the pen that have any type of white are the silver pied and the white male. So if any of them are the father what color would the chicks be cause I do not have a purple male?

 

[Arbor]

Any of the males could be split to purple to produce a purple female chick. Even your white male could actually be a purple male that is masked by white (white will dominate any colour), but if you've hatched out a large number of non-white chicks from him, and this is the only purple, its probably not him.

 

[Yoda]

I know the silver pied does not have any purple. He came from Deerman and he would've told me. I got the purple BS hen from Deerman as well and he gave me her to breed with my regular BS male. The white I got from a person here who was told both were females and I bought them and they ended up a pair. The white is actually spalding BS from this peacock below:



Which confuses me because he has no white at all. Can he still be split to white even though he shows no white?

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Yoda, I'm no genetic guru by no means and will be the first to admit it,,but your post #23 above about split to white and not showing white,Back in March I started a thread here asking for help telling the sex of what turned out to be a male.He is mostly white with black and some blue in him now,think it was decided then he was a Spalding Silver pied,,he is paired with 2 IB hens that both have white flights very visible on them.I've personally hatched and still have 9 chicks from this trio.Silver pied is supposed to carry 2 copies of the w/e gene and since the IB hens are showing white flights it's apparent they also have 1 copy of w/e.So far this hatching season I've got 3 peachicks from this breeding trio that do not have a molecule of white pigment on them,yet all chicks from this breeding should carry 2 copies,one from each parent. I also hatched 1 chick from my BSSP hens that doesn't have any visible white so far on it.It's BSSP mother was in an overflow pen at Bigcreekpoultry when I got her and several males was in that pen but she alone would pass on 2 copies of white to her chicks no matter who the male was she was bred to.I'm hoping as this chick gets older and hopefully becomes a male that all eyes in it's train will be white since the tail is where the white pigment would really stand out.But as we all know it will be 3 more years before this chick is matured enough to see if the tail will be landing spot for any white.
I'm very particular each evening collecting eggs-each is marked before I leave that pen then recorded when I get in the house in my notebook.Then these results are placed on a spreadsheet so i know my way of recording eggs is okay and at hatchtime each color is put in a seperate compartment in case I'm not here to immediatedly zip tie for identification,,but 95% of the time during hatching I'm here.No mistakes were made at zip tying for ID either so it can and does happen,I've got 4 chicks this season to prove so.

 

[Yoda]

French,
I have a beautiful pen. It was 3 sections. The charcoal go in the first and the pieds in the third. The middle is where the young ones grow out and everyone is mixed during the winter. We built five breeder pens that wrap around the top and right side and I have notes that state who was going where but then the October storm hit and it took out me entire 75 x 60 foot pen. We got the main part fixed and the charcoal side fixed but we did not get the rest done til after breeding season started. The pied section still isn't done cause the wire needs to be run to seperate it from the main pen. So unfortunately this season all were mixed except the charcoals

I sold most of the eggs but the ones to test fertility. I still have my notes on who goes where and use them for next year. But in a way this is a good thing cause I am finding out who carries what LOL. I was told that Ares my BS male is from an IB split to spaulding and white Peacock and the hen was IB. Shouldn't the parents have BS somewhere?

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Black shoulder had to come from somewhere at sometime,,yes?? And I doubt when the first b/s was hatched by a peafowl fancier many moons ago and being all white-yellow at birth they knew exactly what was going on either.My guess is every pattern and color has to be present somewhere on the DNA otherwise how does all these new found colors emerge??? I've hatched 2 white b/s chicks from my IB pen this summer and the lone IB/BS male in this pen was the last one out of 3 males pecking order wise.Early in the season I thought I was going to have to pull him out because he was getting chased all over,,,,but some of the girls must have liked him.Sent 15 IB eggs to a man down in southern Illinois and he hatched 2 all yellow chicks too,so my IB/BS male was seeing some action,,,but again about b/s,,,I'll just bet the first b/s peachick ever hatched (whereever that may be) had two barred patterned parents.Somewhere the b/s gene snuck up and hooked up correctly and viola!!

 

[Arbor]

Silver pied is supposed to carry 2 copies of the w/e gene and since the IB hens are showing white flights it's apparent they also have 1 copy of w/e.So far this hatching season I've got 3 peachicks from this breeding trio that do not have a molecule of white pigment on them,yet all chicks from this breeding should carry 2 copies,one from each parent.

Correct, Silver pied is made up of 2 copies of the w/e gene, but also carries one copy of the white gene and one copy of the pied gene. IB hens showing white flights does not guarantee that they are carrying w/e, but is usually an indicator of a single copy of white, or a double copy of pied (not to say the hens aren't carrying w/e, you'd have to have hatched out some silver pied to prove this). Not every chick from this pairing will carry two copies of w/e. If the hen carries one copy w/e, then only 50% of the chicks will have 2 copies and 50% will have 1 copy. These chicks with no pigment could be IB carrying no white copy, one copy of pied and one copy of w/e without showing any white on them.

...she alone would pass on 2 copies of white to her chicks no matter who the male was she was bred to.

This is not true. She would only pass on 1 copy of white and one copy of w/e OR 1 copy pied and 1 copy of w/e.

I'm hoping as this chick gets older and hopefully becomes a male that all eyes in it's train will be white since the tail is where the white pigment would really stand out.But as we all know it will be 3 more years before this chick is matured enough to see if the tail will be landing spot for any white.

If the male she was bred to had at least one copy of w/e, then it will be possible to get a fully w/e male (2 copies), otherwise he will probably end up with some white eyes (less than 60%) in his train

 

[Arbor]

Black shoulder had to come from somewhere at sometime,,yes?? And I doubt when the first b/s was hatched by a peafowl fancier many moons ago and being all white-yellow at birth they knew exactly what was going on either. My guess is every pattern and color has to be present somewhere on the DNA otherwise how does all these new found colors emerge???

This is what I love about genetics! Unfortunately, without hybridization, genetic improvement is not usually possible. DNA is like a long series of light switches, if the right ones are turned on (or off), then the results can be different colours or deadly genetic disorders (cameo "death" gene). Some of the origins of blackshoulder peafowl are unknown, and many believe they originate from hybridization with greens. I don't know if this is true, but it seems odd how the chicks come out a completely different colour than spauldings chicks do.

I've hatched 2 white b/s chicks from my IB pen this summer and the lone IB/BS male in this pen was the last one out of 3 males pecking order wise.Early in the season I thought I was going to have to pull him out because he was getting chased all over,,,,but some of the girls must have liked him.Sent 15 IB eggs to a man down in southern Illinois and he hatched 2 all yellow chicks too,so my IB/BS male was seeing some action,,,but again about b/s,,,I'll just bet the first b/s peachick ever hatched (whereever that may be) had two barred patterned parents.Somewhere the b/s gene snuck up and hooked up correctly and viola!!

I am reminded of some nature programs with this. In lions, for example, lone pairs of males will often roam and sneek in to mate with females of different social groups. I believe that yoda's bird could very well be a peach, even with a young split male in a pen of older ones, just like the senario described above, all it takes is one time.

 

[Arbor]

I know the silver pied does not have any purple. He came from Deerman and he would've told me. I got the purple BS hen from Deerman as well and he gave me her to breed with my regular BS male. The white I got from a person here who was told both were females and I bought them and they ended up a pair. The white is actually spalding BS from this peacock below:



Which confuses me because he has no white at all. Can he still be split to white even though he shows no white?

It is possible! I've had males that are split to white with no white flights. And so far, in the past ten years, I have yet to hatch a male that is visibly split to white. All offspring with the white flights have ended up female.

 

[Yoda]

I know she is a BS now as she is starting to darken up. She is my first female BS and I had no clue what they looked like as a chick in person LOL. Funny how genetics works with them.