what color oegb? pic

[sjarvis00]

Quote:
scroll down to where twin lake poultry reply about using recessive white crosess

http://www.bantychicken.com/cgi-bin...ard=unrecognized&op=display&num=2877&start=45

the second cockbird posted above posted in my reply was a direct result of a darker Opal cock over Rec. White Hens. All teh male offspring were colored very similarly all females showed some color and were a brighter white than normal for the variety, however hackle color was present.
I produced those birds and can tell you anything you woul dlike to know about that breeding. I retained less than 10 for breeding but produced nearly 200. there were another 200 created from F1xF1 matings of which I sent 2 males and 2 females to LA. and retained 2 males and 3 females for myself all others were culled. Some showed color, some where white, some where diluted in color, I chose to breed for type again and very minor selection for color. Ran a Back Cross for additional color to be brought in, Had 2 correct down color chicks from F2 x F2 birds which I am waiting on now only 3-4 weeks old.

 

[opal oe]

opal X blue -> all blue This is a troubling cross- this cross should have produced the same results as a black X blue cross (50% blue and 50% black). Assuming the opal gene is hypostatic. For all of the offspring to be blue, there must have been a splash parent in the cross.

If the opal gene was another incompletely dominant allele at the blue locus then the black x opal cross would have produced opal offspring ( it did not do this). If the opal allele is recessive to the blue allele but acts like the blue allele when heterozygous (opal allele/wild type blue allele) then the opal x black cross would have produced blue offspring(it did not); to get an opal phenotype it would require two opal alleles. It may be that the opal gene is not located at the blue locus.

I think the opal x blue cross was contaminated or not enough chicks were produced or one parent was splash.

I am sorry for not being more specific about the Blue females I used in this test mating they were blue sports and were sisters.

I would like to say that I have never produced any color other than opal when I bred opal to opal.

The pics that GotGame posted on here are two of my opals that I took the pics of, the other two are not mine but look like self blues

 

[tadkerson]

No need to be sorry stuff happens. I think you are doing a good job of trying to determine the nature of the opal gene.

If the opal gene is an allele to the recessive white allele, then all of the F1 offspring should have been a diluted phenotype and they were. You hatched 200 which is a large enough number of offspring to support the hypothesis that the opal allele is found at the C locus.

Of the 200 offspring from an F1 x F1 cross you should of produced something close to the following ratio 1 successive white to 2 F1 phenotype to 1 opal or 50 to 100 to 50.

This ratio will be expressed if the male parent was homozygous for gold and the female parent was hemizygous for gold. All of the F1 had red pigment ( a color due to pheomelanin pigment) in the hackles so this was supported by you offspring phenotypes. I am assuming none of the color was due to autosomal red.


Your data would support the hypothesis that the opal gene is an allele of the C locus. Your data from the F1 cross is supportive of the idea. Ideally one would run a qui square on your data to determine if your F2 ratios show an association between the opal gene and the recessive white gene.

In order to get the gene documented, the data and analysis would have to be published in a scientific journal. For now I would say you have the data to support the idea that there is another allele at the C locus. I am not saying there is such an allele- it could be considered a working model or something like that. In my world, in order to say there is an allele there has to be a peer reviewed publication.

Anybody reading this, please do not report to others that I said the opal gene is another allele at the C locus.

Genetics 101

The recessive white allele is actually a gene that contains an avian retro virus. How the recessive allele prevents the production of pigments is complicated and would require a long explanation. I will give the short version. The protein that is coded for on the C (color allele) is actually an enzyme called tyrosinase. The tyrosinase enzyme is needed by the cell to make pigments. The virus in the recessive white allele disrupts the ability of the cell to properly make tyrosinase therefore the bird does not make pigments and the bird is white.

How the opal allele works I can not say; either it is a mutation of the C (color) allele or it is a mutation of the recessive white allele. There are other C locus alleles they are red eyed white and autosomal albinism.

Tim

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
.... I promise I wont....

 

[sjarvis00]

Quote:
Tim,
I will not under any circumstances state that the "Opal" OE is anything in particular or of any known genetic make-up short of a DNA sample being tested and proven conclusively to be anyone thing or group of things falling together correctly. I have 1 interest in the variety as OE, which is proper OE size and type, which I believe I am getting closer to from the single cross I made with the Rec. White and very hard culling and continued sellection. I produced nearly 350 this year of which I have only chose to allow 6 cockrells and 20 pullets to make it past the 14 week mark, I expect to cull that further to 2 cockrells and 4-5 pullets for winter breeding.
I do have other imterests in the manner of introduceing the color to other breeds, and having a more educated background of the potential genetic makeup will make it easier to introduce the color.

 

[klf73]

I would like to ask a question of the breeders of this variety. What chick down is ideal? I have had pure white but assumed the "dirty" white chicks(my kids terminology

)were opal? Since my hens are splits and I only hatched this year ( didn't hatch from them last year) I found it interesting what popped out. My opal pullets that I now have are so friendly, they talk to us often and follow us around...

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
seems like the Dirty ones are the Opal ones...

 

[sjarvis00]

Quote:
they are a yellowish white in color with a darker grey dusting on the very top of teh down and the top of head.

Thi sbird is already 3 weeks old but you can get the idea.

 

[opal oe]

I have found that the white chicks with blue slate legs are not opal but caring opal, The correct color for opal chicks is white with a cap that is the color of coal dust and every chick of this color will be opal and I have found that every chick of this color will have blue slate legs.

My reasons for this conclusion is when I bred F1 white cock ( It was a all white chick with blue legs ) to F1 white hens ( they were white chicks with blue legs ) only a small % were Opal (white with a coal dust cap w/blue legs) and the majority was white chicks w/blue legs, The white chicks developed into whites and the opal chick developed into a opal.

When I bred F1 whites to Opals about half of the chicks produced were white w/blue legs, The other half was white w/ blue legs with a coal dust cap, The white chicks turned into white adults and the coal dust caped chicks developed into opals.

 

[Henk69]

You may just be selecting for dark opals here. I think the dark cap on the chicks may not be put there by the opal mutation but is just not affected by it as much as the body chickdown is.