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Discussion in 'Family Life - Stories, Pictures & Updates' started by oesdog, Jun 19, 2012.
All for it if it is the will of a terminal patient who has run out of options.
I came to this thread/post for another reason but saw this. So at the risk of causing a stir here goes.
1. If you believe in God and the bible then you should know your life is in His hands. To give or take.
And God 430 said 559, Let us make 6213 man 120 in our image 6754, after our likeness 1823: and let them have dominion 7287 over the fish 1710 of the sea 3220, and over the fowl 5775 of the air 8064, and over the cattle 929, and over all the earth 776, and over every creeping thing 7431 that creepeth 7430 upon the earth 776.
Dominion (hebrew - radah) to rule or have dominion or dominate. AV — rule 13, dominion 9, take 2, prevaileth 1, reign 1, ruler 1
What we DON'T see here is God giving man dominion over himself or other men. There was a time when the Hebrews demanded a King against the advice of God but that's a long story.
2. We know that to commit murder is against God's command. Whether we murder someone else or ourselves it is wrong. To murder someone is not the same as to kill. The difference is in the intent and motive. Certainly in times of war the motive is defense. 1. resistance against attack; protection: This is why our Veterans should feel no guilt IMO.
Murder is offense - noun 1. a violation or breaking of a social or moral rule; transgression; sin. Taking a life even our own is to take dominion from God.
3. We must have Faith in God. How we live is proof of where our faith is or who we trust for our eternal life. We suffer because Adam and Eve sinned not because it is or was Gods will.
But 1161 that 3754 no man 3762 is justified 1344 by 1722 the law 3551 in the sight 3844 of God 2316, [it is] evident 1212: for 3754, The just 1342 shall live 2198 by 1537 faith 4
Now 1161 the just 1342 shall live 2198 by 1537 faith 4102: but 2532 if 1437 [any man] draw back 5288, my 3450 soul 5590 shall have 2106 0 no 3756 pleasure 2106 in 1722 him 846.
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul 5315 [which] is lifted up 6075 is not upright 3474 in him: but the just 6662 shall live 2421 by his faith 530.
Hbr 11:1 Now 1161 faith 4102 is 2076 the substance 5287 of things hoped for 1679, the evidence 1650 of things 4229 not 3756 seen 991.
Substance - hyptstasis (greek I believe)
1) a setting or placing under
a) thing put under, substructure, foundation
2) that which has foundation, is firm
a) that which has actual existence
1) a substance, real being
b) the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing
c) the steadfastness of mind, firmness, courage, resolution
1) confidence, firm trust, assurance
I have placed or set my life under Gods dominion. There is more but I'll stop here.
I personally don't feel its right but I don't know that I could tell someone so ill that they could not do it. I had a great aunt who was diagnosed with late stage liver cancer. She lived in austria and with her age they decided she didn't need treatment. Wasn't worth it. She just stopped taking her meds after that. She was diabetic. She called my mom and was all sorts of out of her head. She wasn't in pain but was very slurred, very groggy. My mom knew she was dying. She didn't want her daughters to know because they would stop her but my mom was in the states so thats who she turned to. She didn't want to be alone. She said she was tired and was going to sleep. My mom stayed on the phone for I don't know how long. Never heard another thing. She was tucked in her bed when they found her with the phone beside her. She made a choice. Many times we stop death with intervention but so many times its futile. My gram went through intervention . It was horrible. Eventually her health care proxy made the call that the hospital was to do no more. They only hurt her and it was only prolonging and adding to the pain. It was pretty bad. If she would have had her way she would have died weeks before. Not by actively killing herself but by simply refusing any treatment. I can't say these ladies were wrong. So I just am not sure how far you can push that line till it becomes wrong. I do not believe that anyone but the patient should be allowed to make the call to actively Euthanize though. That is a slippery slope and one i would not be comfortable with being legal.
When my DIL stepfather had a stroke he had a DNR. This is different from assisted suicide.
When my SIL had cancer she also refused life prolonging procedures. This too is different from assisted suicide.
When my mother had cancer I was there at the end, she too did not receive resuscitation treatment.
Refusing life prolonging treatment and DNR's are not the same as assisted or non assisted suicide.
I believe our lives are as much about our loved ones and friends as they are about us. Having relatives who have commited suicide I can say knowing they took there own lives is hard for family members left behind. Knowing a family member refused life prolonging procedures is not the same and much easier to carry.
You have my sympathies
We are kinder to our pets than we can be to ourselves or our loved ones. Euthanasia should be a viable choice.
All I know is if I have a terminal illness and I had no options but to die a long, horrible death, I'd have a date with Mr. 12 Gauge. If I could, that is. I wouldn't want to waste away slowly, a shell of my former self 'til finally dying. Because we aren't allowed actual euthanasia in this country, that is what I'd do.
Or if I had the money, travel to Switzerland for some suicide tourism with the help of Dignitas.
My Uncle was an airplane mechanic in the air force. He retired after 12 years due to having skin cancer. He was bed ridden the last year of his life. There was nothing we could do but watch him waste away. That was tough on me as 13 - 14 old. We were very close. He went from 240 pounds down to skin and bones at 80 pounds. Yes, I'm for suicide or assisted suicde if it is called for.
I can tell you personally, it is better to let a loved one go(however that may be) than to watch them suffer needlessly with no hope of recovery.
If and when I'm diagnosed with a terminal illness,
and I get to the point where the the pain is stronger than my will,
when the desire to be with my loved ones is overshadowed by the pain of them watching me die,
when it's "time" to go.... but before my strenth is too far spent.
The law has no say in the matter.
To the OP... Only the gentleman in question knows if it's time to go. But if he thinks it is, then I would support his decision.
It seems reasonable for suicide to be legal in certain circumstances but there must be limitations on the freedom to choose it should that ever happen. The plea that there should be no laws except the ones that suit us individually is no more valid in this context than in others.
Voluntary euthanasia will be legal in many countries before too long. One major problem will be where to draw the line and how to deal with cases where the individual concerned is too ill to make his or her own decision. Also, should the criteria be based solely on medical grounds or include other personal reasons?
I wonder what would be the difference in consequences between legal euthanasia and illegal suicide. Perhaps the only practical difference would be the manner of the death and the chance to say proper farewells.
There the possibility of the thin edge of a wedge in this. The average age of most populations seems to be getting greater and the ability of nations and individuals to cope with a growing proportion retired people seems to be diminishing. Once we accept legal euthanasia as normal and common, we may well find that it gradually becomes compulsory.
Call Hospic they make it as painless as possible. Provide support to the family. No one who has been diagnosed as terminal has to die in pain.