what food should i buy?

[Emily_loveschickens]

hi everyone!
I have 4 17 week chickens. 2 golden comets, 1 barred rock, and 1 easter egger.
they are currently on the purina grower but the bag is almost done and they are going to lay any day now. so should i buy another bag of the grower or should I buy layer feed? I have bought oyster shells just incase but what do you think I should do?

 

[JustCallMeMaple]

You could do an all flock, switch to a layer or continue with grower just get a smaller bag and mix the layer or all flock in when one starts laying.

 

[NatJ]

I have 4 17 week chickens. 2 golden comets, 1 barred rock, and 1 easter egger.
they are currently on the purina grower but the bag is almost done and they are going to lay any day now. so should i buy another bag of the grower or should I buy layer feed? I have bought oyster shells just incase but what do you think I should do?

I would buy another bag of grower food, put out a dish of oyster shell, and call it good for now. Most chickens are pretty good about eating the right amount of oyster shell for their own needs.

The only special thing about layer food is the amount of calcium (right for laying hens, too much for other chickens.) But a separate dish of oyster shell lets them get the extra calcium, so you don't really need layer feed.

You say they'll lay any day now, but they are only 17 weeks old. Some of those pullets could easily wait quite a few weeks before they get around to laying.

Also starting them on Layer pellets may encourage them to lay.

How would that work? I've read the ingredients on the bags. The layer pellets have almost the same stuff as any other chicken food, just with more calcium and often less protein. I think it's just a coincidence if people start them on layer pellets when the chickens are about ready to start laying anyway.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Go to All FLock/Flock Raiser and free choice oyster shell as soon as you are out of grower. Contra claims, above, Layer will **NOT** encourage them to lay. Its only value is that its cheap.

The higher protein content of All Flock/Flock Raiser will benefit your birds in (slight, but measurable, though not visible) increases in rate of lay, size of eggs, content of eggs. It will additionally help with weight gain and feather condition, helping to speed molting when your birds do their first adult feather replacement.

Due to larger bag size, you will find the All Flock cheaper per pound than your current feed (though admitedly, not as cheap as layer).

Later, if you should add more birds to your flock, either as hatchlings, roosters, or other hens, there will be no need to either switch feeds or structure seperate feeding areas. All your birds can eat All FLock/Flock raiser (assuming its crumble, wet mash, or fermented) all of their lives.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

...and while the phosphorus/calcium ratio IS important, it is extremely unlikely your birds will suffer a phosporus deficiency from any commercially complete feed.

OP feeds Purina. Sticking with their products (good choice, btw - its whom I would use, if I wasn't using the local mill)

Purina Start & Grow (18% Protein, 3% Fat, 5% Fiber, 1% Calcium +/-, 0.5% Phosphorus)

Purina "Layena" (16% Protein, 2.5% Fat, 5.5% Fiber, 3.75% Calcium +/-, 0.45% Phosphorus)

Purina "Flock Raiser" (20% Protein, 3.5% Fat, 5% Fiber, 1.05% Calcium +/-, 0.6% Phosphorus)

So much for the "phosphorus explanation" offered above.

I don't quite think that All Flock can adaquately provide all things needed by chicks, middle aged chickens and mature hens at once.

You are welcome to your opinion, however, as can be quickly discerned by following the links above (or a perusal of my summaries), you are factually incorrect, with the exception of calcium, which layers will obtain via free choice oyster shell. And as excess calcium is as dangerous as insufficient calcium, the choice to offer it seperately results in a superior management method for the long term health of your flocks.

 

[NatJ]

I don't quite think that All Flock can adaquately provide all things needed by chicks, middle aged chickens and mature hens at once.

Except for calcium, yes it can.
Chicks need more protein.
Extra protein does not hurt the chickens of other ages.
Layers need more calcium. A dish of oyster shell solves that.
Other than that, they are all chickens, and they need about the same things at all ages.

I agree with this. But I don't think oyster shell contains phosphate.

Do you mean phosphorus?

https://www.purinamills.com/chicken-feed/products/detail/purina-layena-pellets
Purina layer feed: .45% phosphorus

https://www.purinamills.com/chicken-feed/products/detail/purina-start-grow
Purnia chick starter: .55% phosphorus (that's higher than the layer feed)

Kalmbach has a bunch of different products, but their layer feeds have .45% to .5% phosphorus, while the chick feeds have .6% phosphorus.

I imagine you'd find similar things for other brands, but I'm not willing to go look up any more than that.

Edit:
@U_Stormcrow I see that you were typing almost the same things, at the same time

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Ok. I do agree that according to you guy's resource All flock food does cover everything pretty well with the exception of oyster shell. But it would seem a bit of a waste to give more protein than is needed. But one thing I noticed about the start/grow food you guys brought up is that for newly hatched chicks they should have at least 19% protein and preferably 21%. The all flock should work all right but the actually start/grow food is only 18% protein.

It is sadly true, here in the US, that much purchasing is done based on labels, and not a combination of research and review of the ingredients lists and guaranteed nutrition labels. A few of us have done the research, but as this thread demonstrates, there are a lot of strongly held opinions with very little support for them, merely people repeating what they'd heard.

My birds, optimum feed, is 24% protein for the first 8 weeks of life +/-, then they join the adult flock at 18% or 20% protein (depends on what I'm mixing from the local mills), but neither my flock size, or my management methods are typical of the usual backyard owner (I hatch every three weeks, and I'm eating young males - so early weight gain is very important to me, and continued weight gain till culling is also a consideration. Hens must be early and productive layers thru their first year, then they either stock pot or must rapidly molt and resume production. No one's getting past year two.) The whole thing is supplimented by free rangng my biodiverse polyculture (my acres of weeds).

 

[3KillerBs]

I don't quite think that All Flock can adaquately provide all things needed by chicks, middle aged chickens and mature hens at once.

The only thing that layers need that other age groups don't is calcium, which is provided by the oystershell.

But it would seem a bit of a waste to give more protein than is needed.

The protein in layer feed is designed for the needs of commercial-strain layers kept in commercial conditions.

Many people at BYC have found that their Dual-Purpose breed chickens kept in backyard conditions benefit from higher levels of protein. Perhaps because they are larger-bodied birds, perhaps because we expect to keep them for many years, or perhaps because the forage and "treats" that we love to give them dilutes the feed intake.

I'm actually saving money on the Southern States' store brand of "Specialty Breeder" feed with 21% protein over the name-brand feed. I expect this to help my adults go smoothly through their first molt.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

and in the HIGHLY unlikely situation where your birds are phosphorus deficient, Dicalcium Phosphate is your go to. Here in the States, given a ready abundance of oyster shell, its rarely used - but it does see more use across the pond, in Europe, Asia, and Africa where oyster shell is not readily abundant, and has been well studied. Calcium Diphosphate is also used, less frequently, and has been reported on in a few studies, such as this one.

For most of us, a Ca/P ratio of 2:1 is the target number (and what you see in most commercial feeds in the US), except layer feeds. Based on studies I've read, high production layers in battery environments (such as the one above) peak around a 3:1 ratio, but oddly, US layer feeds usually have an average 7:1 to 8:1 ratio (because the net phoshorus isn't increased in the feed, though the calcium is increased substantially), meaning a significant portion of the extra calcium can't be effectively used by the birds, with all the concerns associated with excess calcium diets.

In any event, if you choose to suppliment with the above, you must be VERY careful with the dosages. This sort of stuff isn't for the typical backyard flock owner, and should not be done as a matter of course.

 

[GC-Raptor]

hi everyone!
I have 4 17 week chickens. 2 golden comets, 1 barred rock, and 1 easter egger.
they are currently on the purina grower but the bag is almost done and they are going to lay any day now. so should i buy another bag of the grower or should I buy layer feed? I have bought oyster shells just incase but what do you think I should do?

Continue feeding the Starter-Grower feed till one of each breed is laying then mix in a layer feed 50/50 till the Starter-Grower feed is gone.
Offer Oyster Shells now.
My 18 weeks old have had Oyster Shells available separately since 15 weeks old.
They are still on a Starter Grower feed till one of each breed are laying. GC