What happened..?

[Hensndoes]

Thank you very much for your input. He is a Cochin bantam, about 16 weeks old. I hold him and "cuddle" him all the time lol and have since he was about 8 weeks old. I really hope he's not going to totally change into a jerk...

I LOVE my Cochin! He's my avatar. Hang in there- I was told by the 4HR I got him from at 5 mo that he was starting to beat up his dad. He grew into a very respectful roo. I do handle my flock a lot though. And I rewarded his acceptance every time when I first got him with treats. I always toss to him first so he can feel like a man and feed his girls after I set someone down.

 

[lazy gardener]

Thank you very much for your input. He is a Cochin bantam, about 16 weeks old. I hold him and "cuddle" him all the time lol and have since he was about 8 weeks old. I really hope he's not going to totally change into a jerk...

Statistically, it's those roosters that get held and cuddled that do turn into human aggressive jerks. Here's an article written by my friend Beekissed that might help you to set some appropriate boundaries:

Rooster aggression:

I'm going to give you a clue on "rooster speak"....holding him down doesn't mean anything to him. If you'll watch how roosters interact between dominant ones and subordinate ones, there is rarely any, if ever, holding a bird down for a long time when there is an altercation. There is very quick flogging, gripping by the back of the head and flinging him away or getting him down and giving some savage pecking to the back of the head or neck. No holding him down and nothing else. That's a rooster on a hen maneuver, not rooster on rooster.

Because your rooster is attacking you, you are the subordinate in this picture. You are getting dominated by your bird simply because you are walking where a subordinate isn't supposed to be walking when a dominant is in the area. What you never see is a dominant rooster getting attacked by a subordinate rooster unless there is going to be a definite shift in power, at which time the sub will challenge the dom and win...or lose. So far you are losing and not even challenging.

If you want to win this battle, you must go on the offensive, not the defensive. He who attacks first, and is still claiming the area when the other guy leaves it, is the winner. Some people never have to go on the offensive because their movements in the coop are so decisive that they move and act like a dominant and a 2 ft. rooster is smart enough to recognize a dominant attitude and behavior...which is likely why he's never attacked your husband. Most men move more decisively than do women and children and they rarely step around a bird, but walk through them.

Carrying him around also doesn't mean anything to him...it just doesn't translate at all. His environment is that coop and run floor and that's where you need to speak to him, in a language he understands. Because they are quick on their feet and can evade you, you need a training tool like a long, limber, supple rod of some kind...cutting a nice switch from a shrub or tree that will lengthen your reach by 5 ft. really helps in this. Don't use a rake or broom because they are too clumsy and stiff and can put the hurts on the guy when you don't really mean to.

When you enter your coop, walk with decisive movements and walk directly towards your rooster. Move him away from the feeder and the rest of the flock and keep a slow, determined pressure on him until he leaves the coop. The stick will help you guide him. Then...wait patiently while he gets his bird mind around what just happened. He will try to come back in the coop...let him. When he gets a good bit into that coop, take your switch and give him a good smack on the fluffy feathers under his tail if you can aim it well. If you cannot, just smack the floor near him very hard and fast until he hops and runs and keep at it until he leaves the coop once again. Repeat this process until he is too wary to come back in the coop.

Feed your hens. When he tries to come to the feeder, you "attack" him with the switch...smack the wall by the pop door just as he tries to enter. If he makes it inside, pursue him with the stick either smacking the floor or tapping him on the back or the head until he leaves in a hurry. Make him stay outside while you sit there and enjoy watching your hens eat. Use the stick to keep him from the flock..just him. Don't worry about the hens running and getting excited when this is happening...they will get over it. This is for the future of your flock and your management of it.

When the hens have had a good tucker....leave the coop and let him come back in. Go out later and walk through that flock and use your legs to scatter birds if they get in your way...top roosters do not step to one side for any other bird in the flock. You shouldn't either. Take your stick and startle him with a smack on the floor next to him when he is least expecting it...make that bird jump and RUN. Make him so nervous around you that he is always looking over his shoulder and trying to get out of your way. THAT'S how he needs to be from now on in your lives together. Forget about pets or cuddles...this is a language and behavior he understands. You can hand feed him and such later...right now you need to establish that when you move, he moves...away. When you turn your back, he doesn't move towards you...ever.

Then test him...take your stick along, move around in the coop, bend over with your back turned to him, feed, water, etc....but keep one eye on that rooster. If he even makes one tiny step in your direction or in your "zone", go on the attack and run him clear on out of the coop. Then keep him out while everyone else is eating.

THAT'S how a dominant rooster treats a subordinate. They don't let them crow, mate or even eat in their space. If the subordinate knows his place and watches over his shoulder a lot, he may get to come and eat while the other rooster is at the feeder...but he doesn't ever relax if he knows what is good for him. At any given time the dominant will run him off of that feed and he knows it, so he eats with one eye toward the door. If he feels the need to crow, it's not usually where the dom can reach him...maybe across the yard.

If your rooster crows while you are there, move towards him and keep on the pressure until he stops. He doesn't get to crow while you are there. He can crow later...not while you are there.

It all sounds time consuming but it really isn't...shouldn't take more than minutes for each lesson and you can learn a lot as you go along. And it can be fun if you venture into it with the right attitude....this is rooster training that really works if you do it correctly. This can work on strange roosters, multiple roosters and even old roosters...they can all learn. You rule the coop...now act like it. Carrying is for babies...you have a full grown rooster on your hands, not a baby.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Since you are into behaviors, you don't have a rooster, you have a cockerel. Just like some teenage humans some adolescent cockerels can be a lot more mature that others, but 16 week is pretty young. It sounds like that Barred Rock is an older hen.

Some mature hens will squat for about anything in spurs but many mature hens require a male to act like an adult before they will accept him as a potential father to their children. Part of that is finding them food, dancing for them instead of just jumping them, keeping peace in the flock, being on watch for danger, things like that. Part of it is him having the self-confidence that he can wow them with his magnificence. Very few cockerels that young can even come close to doing that. I'm not sure yours is there yet but he may be getting closer than normal.

I read about size all the time on here. I find that size has very little to do with it. You may have heard the expression "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog". Same thing is true for chickens, it's not unusual for bantams to dominate full sized chickens. Size does give an advantage in a fight but usually the winner is the one that is most willing to fight.

It's not unusual for mature hens, especially the dominant mature hen, to beat up on a cockerel in a flock without a mature rooster. She's the boss, it's her flock, and no immature brat that can't measure up is going to come in and take over. Until that cockerel reaches a point of maturity he is just not that willing to fight her, even when he's bigger.

Several years I have a flock with mature hens and immature cockerels but with no mature rooster. I put my mature rooster in the freezer yesterday so I'm in that position again this year. My cockerel is 24 weeks old and not yet mature enough to take over. Sometimes this transition goes really smoothly, no real drama. The dominate hen will be in charge until he matures, then he will take over. Occasionally there is some drama when he takes over, some fighting between him and the mature hen, but usually not much. One year when he reached that maturity level, for him about 11 months, he spent two days going out of his way to attack the dominant hen before she finally accepted his dominance. After that they became best buddies. That much fighting is unusual. I think his slow maturity had something to do with it.

Most of my cockerels reach that point around 7 months, give or take, but a few mature earlier and some later. As you say watching behaviors is fascinating. Each flock is unique, each flock has its own dynamics. Just changing out one member can totally change those flock dynamics. We can tell you what we have observed with out flocks, we can even guess what you are likely to see, but its only a guess. With living animals you don't get guarantees when it comes o behaviors.

 

[FlyingNunFarm]

So this hen he attacked is actually in fact my dominant hen, by far. In her second day in the coop, she told the rooster who was boss, (and it was his home to begin with!) I saw her jump kick him and make him sqwak real good so he rarely messes with her.. Oh and he is a bantam cochin, while she is a large Barred Rock, so almost double his size..so anyway, the incident was just super interesting, I wish I had recorded it, I've never seen my rooster so angry lol and the hen was pretty shocked too

Since you are into behaviors, you don't have a rooster, you have a cockerel. Just like some teenage humans some adolescent cockerels can be a lot more mature that others, but 16 week is pretty young. It sounds like that Barred Rock is an older hen.

Some mature hens will squat for about anything in spurs but many mature hens require a male to act like an adult before they will accept him as a potential father to their children. Part of that is finding them food, dancing for them instead of just jumping them, keeping peace in the flock, being on watch for danger, things like that. Part of it is him having the self-confidence that he can wow them with his magnificence. Very few cockerels that young can even come close to doing that. I'm not sure yours is there yet but he may be getting closer than normal.

I read about size all the time on here. I find that size has very little to do with it. You may have heard the expression "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog". Same thing is true for chickens, it's not unusual for bantams to dominate full sized chickens. Size does give an advantage in a fight but usually the winner is the one that is most willing to fight.

It's not unusual for mature hens, especially the dominant mature hen, to beat up on a cockerel in a flock without a mature rooster. She's the boss, it's her flock, and no immature brat that can't measure up is going to come in and take over. Until that cockerel reaches a point of maturity he is just not that willing to fight her, even when he's bigger.

Several years I have a flock with mature hens and immature cockerels but with no mature rooster. I put my mature rooster in the freezer yesterday so I'm in that position again this year. My cockerel is 24 weeks old and not yet mature enough to take over. Sometimes this transition goes really smoothly, no real drama. The dominate hen will be in charge until he matures, then he will take over. Occasionally there is some drama when he takes over, some fighting between him and the mature hen, but usually not much. One year when he reached that maturity level, for him about 11 months, he spent two days going out of his way to attack the dominant hen before she finally accepted his dominance. After that they became best buddies. That much fighting is unusual. I think his slow maturity had something to do with it.

Most of my cockerels reach that point around 7 months, give or take, but a few mature earlier and some later. As you say watching behaviors is fascinating. Each flock is unique, each flock has its own dynamics. Just changing out one member can totally change those flock dynamics. We can tell you what we have observed with out flocks, we can even guess what you are likely to see, but its only a guess. With living animals you don't get guarantees when it comes o behaviors.

I was going to comment about him being bantam. Make a joke how that explains it. I've always heard bantams are feisty little guys. LOL But I think Ridgerunner is right. He's young and full of hormones he doesn't know quite what to do with.
I am interested in thoughts on my current situation.
I'm seeing behaviors between my year old girls and the 3 (almost) 5 month old boys I have.
Does anyone think the girls have a say in who becomes the top roo?

 

[Ridgerunner]

No, I don't think they do. The boys fight it out.

 

[FlyingNunFarm]

No, I don't think they do. The boys fight it out.

I always thought so too... until now.
Not trying to highjack @Erika Shumway . You might find this interesting too.
I hatched 3 Swedish Flower cockerals.
First to show signs of being a boy was Captain. Comb was red first, waddles dropped...that sort of thing.
Then Trouble. Who earned his name by being just that. Showed cockeral personality first. Very curious and outgoing. They were boys at 6 weeks.
Then there is Gerald. Who was Gertrude until 13 weeks! All of a sudden there were waddles and saddle feathers.
I've noticed that the girls about the same age as the boys don't seem to care which boy they hang around with. It's the older girls (5 @ 1year and 2 @4+). Captain is larger then the others but very laid back in personality. A go with the flow kinda guy. He and Gerald fight it out frequently. Not bad bloody trying to kill each other but a scuffle here and there. (I see no clear winner but I'm not a chicken.) Trouble and Gerald are trying to go after the girls. Not in the nice mature way that they should either. And when they force it I've seen other older girls come to the rescue of the offended hen. Quite literally tackle the boy and chase him off! I have not seen them do this to Captain. I haven't really seen him try to mate. I know 2 boys have to go... I was waiting to see who behaved... but I'm wondering if the older girls have made their choice.

 

[ramblingrose]

Is it normal for a big chicken to killed and shred a small chicken and why here's my pictures the first one is my big chickens and the 2nd picture is my little one

 

[Lady of McCamley]

So this hen he attacked is actually in fact my dominant hen, by far. In her second day in the coop, she told the rooster who was boss, (and it was his home to begin with!) I saw her jump kick him and make him sqwak real good so he rarely messes with her.. Oh and he is a bantam cochin, while she is a large Barred Rock, so almost double his size..so anyway, the incident was just super interesting, I wish I had recorded it, I've never seen my rooster so angry lol and the hen was pretty shocked too

Others have posted some really good information into the psyche of a cockerel as he integrates into the flock.

Your information above changes the picture totally. She is the dominant hen, you picked her up in flock presence, more importantly the cockerel's, and coddled her. That demoted her position in the pecking order. It showed she was vulnerable.

Your cockerel took the opportunity when she was re-introduced to show he too can dominate her, since apparently she is vulnerable. Her being the dominate hen over him changes the relationship equation completely.

His aggression was completely towards her to dethrone her and establish himself as the leader of the flock.

Yes, hens can definitely shape a young rooster. I see my brooding mothers do just that. My nicer boys have been hazed by their mothers and taught some manners. It makes them better roos.

LofMc

 

[Ridgerunner]

His aggression was completely towards her to dethrone her and establish himself as the leader of the flock.

I agree. That may have been just a temporary adjustment though, he's only 16 weeks. I don't think that issue is even close to settled. She was disoriented and he surprised her. Next time she may very well surprise him.

Yes, hens can definitely shape a young rooster. I see my brooding mothers do just that. My nicer boys have been hazed by their mothers and taught some manners. It makes them better roos.

Help shape them yes, that's happens. That's a big reason I prefer a cockerel to be raised with the flock. But choose which will be the top rooster, I don't think that's the same thing. The hens don't join in the fights to see that a favorite wins. The dominant chicken, whether male or female, will break up fights and knock another chicken off that is trying to mate, but that's to show and maintain their own dominance, not picking a favorite.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

@Ridgerunner

I agree with everything you say.

At 16 weeks, the argument is no way settled. The Cochin rooster will have to continue to prove his dominance until the Barred Rock accepts it. It could take awhile. (My alpha hens really disrespect my young roos until they stop being such jerks.)

Hens help shape roosters, but the dominant rooster must take his position.

I see far more shaping with my broody hens than with the general flock. Several of them have really "knocked the heads" of petulant sons who learned to calm down in the flock. The dominant hens helped keep them in check. (The younger dumb ones do nothing).

After that initial checking, generally by mom, as he grows, it is totally flock dynamics and roosters vying for position to see who is flock leader.

Hens don't choose a leader, the top rooster must take it, and keep it.

LofMc