What is your "If only someone had told me!" moment?

[Farmer Viola]

I wish I knew NOT to buy from a hatchery! could have saved me a lot of time and heartache

 

[pollopicante]

Hi everyone, im completely new to this and dont have any chicks yet...yet, but am wondering why regret buying from hatcheries? what sort of heartache? I would prefer to buy locally but it seems there isnt much breed variety where I live.

 

[Farmer Viola]

well.. okay. disclaimer, this is just my experience and I am just 1 person.

I found some chicks (12wks) on CraigsList from a local farmer which I thought sounded perfect. when I got there, there were a lot of red flags but I was so new and SO excited, I didn't know what to look for at all. I got buff orpingtons, black australorps, barred rocks and rhode island reds (birds sold as RIR are actually "production reds" I now know).

The farmer told us he ordered 1,000 birds from a hatchery. They were inside a big barn, with access to free range. I caught the ones inside, not outside. they were super afraid, probably never held since there were 1000 of them.

I took every last RIR they had left. in hindsight, they were obviously the worst/weakest and that's the reason they were left for last. they had really bad poop butts, they NEVER recovered from that 1yr later. one of the hens with poop butt never laid real eggs, she laid extremely tiny eggs without yolks, or she laid softshell eggs without yolks. I think she had pasty butt her whole life and it was never corrected as a chick, despite my efforts from 12wks on I couldn't fix it. 1 of them was extremely small, she wasn't bantam but deformed, she laid huge eggs for her body and had really bad prolapse problems from 7mos on. there was another one, small in size, I believe it had neurological damage because of how it acted - not a normal chicken. this one started having seizures and we had to cull her.

Black australorps - 2 black aussies died, I went back and got 2 more and an ameraucana. why oh why did I go back to the same place?!?! 1 of those black aussies died too. the ameraucana was the best hen out of everyone, HOWEVER she was actually an easter egger and I didn't appreciate being lied to.

Barred rocks - both of my barred rocks died very slowly, withering away despite all my efforts to save them. I had a very very hard 1st year with chickens. I watched most of them die even though I tried to treat them. it was completely heart breaking. they would stop eating, lose weight, I would try to force feed, but they would eventually die within 2-3 weeks of being brought inside to ICU. they didn't have a lot of symptoms to go on. I was too new to chickens to perform an autopsy.

my 1 buff orpington girl and the EE were probably the only two "acceptable" quality chickens out of the 16 that I bought.

Overall, I feel that the hatchery birds I had were just lower quality animals. Since then, I have changed it up. I switched to incubating and hatching my own chicks. I only buy eggs from backyard breeders or enthusiasts, and I ask them what they select for in their breeding program. (health? personality? nothing?)

I put a lot of effort into meeting all their nutritional needs from day 1. All my now-adult birds that I hatched are VERY strong, robust, and without illness. I believe that giving them a GOOD start in life can set the tone of health for their entire lives. Having a hard start can mean long term health issues that they never fully bounce back from.

The chicks I hatch myself receive the following within their first 4 weeks of life: oatmeal, cornmeal, starter feed ground up fine during week 1; supplemented with NutriDrench chicken vitamins in the water (as well as regular water, always clean, changed daily); electrolytes by water IF the hatch wasn't perfectly smooth; pro-biotics by water to help them absorb more nutrients from their feed (requiring less feed overall); kale, turnip greens, mustard greens, watercress (dark leafy greens supply vital nutrients like vitamin k & b) diced fine; minced garlic as a natural anti-biotic and health tonic; organic apple cider vinegar for pasty butt or to right imbalanced PH. This may sound like a lot, but they are given in slow increments not all at once, and for different purposes.

I also have a lot of interaction with them from the very beginning. We are bonded to each other and they trust me, even enjoy being handled. I can't tell you how hard I had to work to earn the trust of the hatchery birds, and even then, we were never really 'friends.'
with my non-hatchery hand raised birds, they all climb into my lap any time I sit down near them

 

[pollopicante]

Wow, that sounds like a discouraging first year. I definitely want my chicks to be hand raised and friendly, they will be pets primarily. maybe we just need to stick with whats local and skip the naked necks.

 

[3riverschick]

Wow, that sounds like a discouraging first year. I definitely want my chicks to be hand raised and friendly, they will be pets primarily. maybe we just need to stick with whats local and skip the naked necks.

Hi,
Ways to find local breeds:
1. Choose the breeds you want then go to that breed's national Club website on the Net.
Look at the Breeder's Directory for one near you.
2. Go to the American Poultry Association website and look at the Judge's Directory.
Look for a Judge who lives near you and contact him/her asking of anyone has the breeds near you.
3. Look for the specific breed thread here on BYC and ask them if anyone has the breed
near you. If you don't want to share your town and State, just choose a geographic area
within whatever driving distance you want to travel ( Knoxville Area, Chicagoland,
Southern Calif., etc. ).
4. Many States have their own State or regional thread on BYC. Find the one for your
area and ask around.
Best Regards,
Karen in western PA, USA

 

[subhanalah]

well.. okay. disclaimer, this is just my experience and I am just 1 person.

I found some chicks (12wks) on CraigsList from a local farmer which I thought sounded perfect. when I got there, there were a lot of red flags but I was so new and SO excited, I didn't know what to look for at all. I got buff orpingtons, black australorps, barred rocks and rhode island reds (birds sold as RIR are actually "production reds" I now know).

The farmer told us he ordered 1,000 birds from a hatchery. They were inside a big barn, with access to free range. I caught the ones inside, not outside. they were super afraid, probably never held since there were 1000 of them.

I took every last RIR they had left. in hindsight, they were obviously the worst/weakest and that's the reason they were left for last. they had really bad poop butts, they NEVER recovered from that 1yr later. one of the hens with poop butt never laid real eggs, she laid extremely tiny eggs without yolks, or she laid softshell eggs without yolks. I think she had pasty butt her whole life and it was never corrected as a chick, despite my efforts from 12wks on I couldn't fix it. 1 of them was extremely small, she wasn't bantam but deformed, she laid huge eggs for her body and had really bad prolapse problems from 7mos on. there was another one, small in size, I believe it had neurological damage because of how it acted - not a normal chicken. this one started having seizures and we had to cull her.

Black australorps - 2 black aussies died, I went back and got 2 more and an ameraucana. why oh why did I go back to the same place?!?! 1 of those black aussies died too. the ameraucana was the best hen out of everyone, HOWEVER she was actually an easter egger and I didn't appreciate being lied to.

Barred rocks - both of my barred rocks died very slowly, withering away despite all my efforts to save them. I had a very very hard 1st year with chickens. I watched most of them die even though I tried to treat them. it was completely heart breaking. they would stop eating, lose weight, I would try to force feed, but they would eventually die within 2-3 weeks of being brought inside to ICU. they didn't have a lot of symptoms to go on. I was too new to chickens to perform an autopsy.

my 1 buff orpington girl and the EE were probably the only two "acceptable" quality chickens out of the 16 that I bought.

Overall, I feel that the hatchery birds I had were just lower quality animals. Since then, I have changed it up. I switched to incubating and hatching my own chicks. I only buy eggs from backyard breeders or enthusiasts, and I ask them what they select for in their breeding program. (health? personality? nothing?)

I put a lot of effort into meeting all their nutritional needs from day 1. All my now-adult birds that I hatched are VERY strong, robust, and without illness. I believe that giving them a GOOD start in life can set the tone of health for their entire lives. Having a hard start can mean long term health issues that they never fully bounce back from.

The chicks I hatch myself receive the following within their first 4 weeks of life: oatmeal, cornmeal, starter feed ground up fine during week 1; supplemented with NutriDrench chicken vitamins in the water (as well as regular water, always clean, changed daily); electrolytes by water IF the hatch wasn't perfectly smooth; pro-biotics by water to help them absorb more nutrients from their feed (requiring less feed overall); kale, turnip greens, mustard greens, watercress (dark leafy greens supply vital nutrients like vitamin k & b) diced fine; minced garlic as a natural anti-biotic and health tonic; organic apple cider vinegar for pasty butt or to right imbalanced PH. This may sound like a lot, but they are given in slow increments not all at once, and for different purposes.

I also have a lot of interaction with them from the very beginning. We are bonded to each other and they trust me, even enjoy being handled. I can't tell you how hard I had to work to earn the trust of the hatchery birds, and even then, we were never really 'friends.'
with my non-hatchery hand raised birds, they all climb into my lap any time I sit down near them

I would not blame the hatchery at all in this. If they were 12 weeks when you got them, he ruined them with poor care before you got them. Hatcheries typically have good production birds, the ones they ship come from the same place their replacement birds come from.

 

[Blooie]

My experience with MyPetChicken was overall pretty good. In my case it was the post office who messed up - the chicks were hatched on Monday, we paid for express shipping, the tracking information clearly showed a Wednesday delivery date ..... even said that it had left the Casper post office the day before. I don't know what they were tracking, but it wasn't my 20 chicks. After they spent the night in loading at Casper they were sent on to me via truck - a 6 hour drive taking into account stops to unload and pick up mail at various towns between here and there. The temperatures had plummeted during that time frame to 19 below zero. I lost count of the trips to our two local post offices and phone calls waiting for them. Our mail is delivered to the Lovell post office, 6 miles away, sorted and then sent out by about 8 am. I was sitting in the Lovell post office parking lot waiting for the truck from Casper before 6 am. I lost 6 out of the 20 - two were DOA, one died about half an hour after getting them into their warm brooder, another that evening, and two the next day. Contacted MyPetChicken, and they were very prompt with a refund for the chicks we lost.

That said, I made some serious mistakes but I also made some good decisions. The biggest mistake was ordering too early in the year for delivery here in Wyoming. I was stupid and didn't realize that I could order what I wanted and have them delivered when the weather was more conducive to a safe trip. I was overanxious and when the ones I really wanted kept showing "sold out" I panicked and "ordered before they ran out." That was really dumb. The second mistake was not having vitamins, electrolytes or anything else on hand to help them over the shipping stress

The things I did right helped tremendously. I called up the tracking information that showed they had left Casper on Wednesday morning and were scheduled for delivery that afternoon, and I took my phone to our post office. I showed it to our local postmaster. She called it up on her official computer and was as puzzled as I was, because that was on late Wednesday afternoon when they should have already have been here. She called the Casper PO in front of me, asked if they had my chicks, and got a yes. She looked up at me and said, "They are there and the're cheeping!" At last, a glimmer of hope - at least some were still alive. Then she had the man she was talking to put a note on the box asking the driver to put them in the cab of the truck, not the cargo area, which he did, bless his heart. (The note was still attached to the box when I finally got them Thursday morning.) Another thing I'm glad I did was to take screen shots of all the tracking information....that turned out well for me because it showed the erroneous shipping information, the fact that I had paid for Express Shipping, and they compared that with the delivery scan. Then I opened the box after it was scanned and counted and checked chicks in front of the post office staff. They saw the dead and sick ones for themselves. I also took pictures right there at the PO.

When I got the babies home I immediately took each one out of the box individually, checked for pasty butts, and dipped each little beak in sugar water, which I had learned about here, making sure it went down the hatch like it should. The sicker little girls went into a part of the brooder that I quickly sectioned off with a piece of cardboard. I limited handling and gawking at them until they were settled, eating, drinking, pooing and being cute.

Today I still have the 14 survivors and they are healthy and strong. They have been out in their coop for almost 3 weeks now with the 6 other chicks that I bought locally to replace those that I lost. (plus 2 extra for good measure!) Will I order from a mail order hatchery again? I honestly don't know. My issue was not with the quality of the chicks I ordered but with the poor performance of the postal service. The mailing issue would be the one thing that would hold me back, not the company I ordered from. I don't show my chickens and have no intention of breeding any of them. I wanted eggs, some moving lawn ornaments, and something to take care of. I got that in triplicate, so I'm happy.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Ways to find local breeds:

1. Choose the breeds you want then go to that breed's national Club website on the Net.
Look at the Breeder's Directory for one near you.

2. Go to the American Poultry Association website and look at the Judge's Directory.
Look for a Judge who lives near you and contact him/her asking of anyone has the breeds near you.

3. Look for the specific breed thread here on BYC and ask them if anyone has the breed
near you. If you don't want to share your town and State, just choose a geographic area
within whatever driving distance you want to travel ( Knoxville Area, Chicagoland,
Southern Calif., etc. ).

4. Many States have their own State or regional thread on BYC. Find the one for your
area and ask around.

Great advice, thank you Karen!!!

Quote:

Like I said, this is just my experience and I am just 1 person. I am sure lots of people get hatchery stock and don't even give it a 2nd thought.

I don't agree with hatchery practices. I don't like that the hens are kept in a large barn that's wall-to-wall chickens, no access to free range, grass, greens, or trees. I don't believe that hatcheries are selective in the way that a backyard enthusiast might be; spending time with them, actually knowing the hens, observing their behavior, personalities, and health. I think they are after the highest # of birds, eggs, and chicks to make the highest profits possible. I don't like the idea of sacrificing certain principles for the almighty dollar.

Hatcheries prevent widespread illness by giving anti-biotics to the general population on a regular schedule, which also happens to kill all the good bacteria in the digestive system (pro biotics can help with this, but by repeatedly killing all the bacteria, it is severely deflating the immune system). I don't agree with this practice.

Here is a video of hatchery hens, no this isn't considered inhumane, however I do not find it acceptable for the way I want my chickens to be raised:

Another consideration is the disposal of male chicks. Everyone wants females, but 50% of all chicks hatched are males. The males are not killed humanely in my opinion. In a hatchery they are dropped into a meat grinder while still alive. This is considered humane in hatchery practices, but it gives me nightmares. here is a video of this practice, warning, it's VERY upsetting:

it also shows chicks on conveyer belts, and de-beaking, just warning you.

I can pretty much guarantee you that any small backyard breeder is going to take great pains to make sure any life they take is taken humanely and only when necessary. Yes, I have culled a baby chick before. I cut off it's head in 1 smooth motion, while it was held warm and comforted in my hands. It had no fear, it didn't feel anything past the severing of it's spinal cord. I only culled it because I had to, not because of it's gender. The remaining males I hatch are grown up to butcher weight, then processed for the table. I believe this is the most humane and ethical way of doing things, and it's the only way I can participate in poultry rearing with a clear conscience.

more hatchery information: http://www.juststruttinfarm.com/hatchery-horrors.html

 

[perchie.girl]

I wish I knew NOT to buy from a hatchery! could have saved me a lot of time and heartache

I am soo sorry. I have had good luck so far. I bought hatchery chicks from the feed store... There are a few that have very good track records There is even a "review" Page on hatcheries here at BYC..

deb

 

[Farmer Viola]

just so I can contribute something positive after all that... I think this lady is doing a lot of things right!

part 2: