what makes crele?

onthespot

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i saw some birds that were crossed between partridge and barred (cuckoo? is that the same thing?) and the roosters looked sort of crele-ish. Is that just a coincidence? The hens were sort of just a dusty brown looking with some barring showing on the heavier wing and tail feathers. Thanks if anyone knows the answer.
 

Kev

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You guessed pretty well. Cuckoo and barred is due to the same gene called Barring. The difference in the barring is due to other factors such as feather growth rate- generally, if the feather grows fast= cuckoo, if the feather grows slow= crispier bars with cleaner coloring in the bars.

Cuckoo/barred are just solid black chickens with the barring gene. The "creleish" birds you saw were non-black chickens with the barring gene.

Crele is properly applied(not my rule! it's a standardized name) to e+ (black breasted red) with barring.. however it is very common for any non-black bird with barring to get called crele.. even birds with leaky black(black birds leaking brown on hackles and saddles) with barring often get called crele.

An interesting point: wheaten roosters don't look much different from BBR so wheaten roosters with barring can look much like a proper crele.. however wheaten hens look quite different(often it can be hard to see any evidence of barring on wheaten hens).
 

onthespot

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Thank you Ken. The birds were crosses between partridge silkies and cuckoo marans. I got one of the hens as a potential broody and by golly she laid an almost decent egg! It was brown with dark brown speckles. I am thinking about getting a few more of these hens and maybe a roo with the most silkiest traits and see what they breed like. It would be nice to get a super dark laying partridge silkie if I could breed the barring back out and keep the dark egg color.
 

Kev

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That would be cool.. I've got some silkies and showgirls that lay green or even bluish eggs.

That cross should have thrown only cuckoo chicks(if marans was the rooster).. presence of non-black shows the marans were not pure for the cuckoo(rather, for the black color).

Barring is very easy to breed out. If you breed the crosses together or back to a silkie you will get some that don't have barring, use those and barring won't be a concern ever again.

Also, if it was silkie over marans hens it would have been sex linked cross- only the male chicks would have barring.

I too have crossed with marans for broodies.(naked neck, asil and phoenix) . so far seems to have been very good cross for that.
 

onthespot

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the "breeder" of these birds calls them "Sil-Mars" and has been letting them cross breed for years so there is no telling what percentage or who the "baby daddy" is at this point. She is eccentric, and another secretive and eccentric person is the go between, who it would ruin our friendship if I went direct, even though I know the breeder and she knows who I am... if you know what I mean. I want to ask my friend to acquire a couple more hens for me, the largest ones with the hardest feathers that still show silkie blood, like blue ears, a head tuft or something, and go with the silkiest looking cross bred roo. I could go with an actual silkie partridge roo but I think I would be better with a cross roo to help keep the eggs as dark as possible.
 
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Kev

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Yes I know all too well what you mean, the amazingly complex(or not..) minefield people can be sometimes.. grin!

So anyways, seems to me you have a pretty good breeding plan. I would have tried using a sibling if my goal was the dark egg color also.

Good luck with your goal!
 

onthespot

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LOL my main goal is a lot of economical broodies to hatch out copper black marans and mille fleur cochins, but while I'm at it, might as well have the most frustrating and complex breeding program for those as well!
 

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