What next? These animals scare me..

[Q9]

Regarding the attacks in Afghanistan...

I find it incredibly difficult to condemn attacks on foreign forces. WE may have our high-minded motives and pretty talk about "democracy," but what does the average Afghan see? Predator drones and things like Sgt. Bales' massacre (I suspect the full story has not been told with that, either). Is it the norm? No. But it's extremely visible, and the fact is, the average Afghan sees us as a foreign invader trying to alter the way they live. We should have left the moment we finished off bin Laden. You cannot change culture, beliefs, and values through force - rather, you end up reinforcing them, as they feel persecuted. I believe we've done more to increase radical Islam than any other factor in recent history.

 

[thaiturkey]

Is the british army the same army in england or is it a mix of english,wales, and irish?

The British Army is really the army of the UK which includes Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands as well as England, Scotland and Wales. However, people from other countries may be able to join, as you can see from the link below. Perhaps you will be surprised to see that nationals from the Irish Republic can also join the British Army!

http://www.army.mod.uk/join/20149.aspx

 

[thaiturkey]

Regarding the attacks in Afghanistan...

I find it incredibly difficult to condemn attacks on foreign forces. WE may have our high-minded motives and pretty talk about "democracy," but what does the average Afghan see? Predator drones and things like Sgt. Bales' massacre (I suspect the full story has not been told with that, either). Is it the norm? No. But it's extremely visible, and the fact is, the average Afghan sees us as a foreign invader trying to alter the way they live. We should have left the moment we finished off bin Laden. You cannot change culture, beliefs, and values through force - rather, you end up reinforcing them, as they feel persecuted. I believe we've done more to increase radical Islam than any other factor in recent history.

I agree with that, including your last sentence.

The drones have damaged relationships with Pakistan too. That country seems to be more of a terrorist stronghold than Afghanistan ever was and I don't think that we can trust the government as far as you can throw a 10 kilo bag of kebabs. Attacking the country with drones, whatever the justification, is likely to make more difficult the efforts of anyone there that we can trust.

The alleged antics of Bales and others like him are gob smacking. Excuses along the lines that he was under stress don't wash. These people are supposed to be professionals and should be trained and controlled so that they are stopped before they go off the rails. Similarly, the excuse that it always happens in war is also unacceptable unless we believe that the methods and morals of Genghis Khan hold good today. The fact is that kids are enticed into the armed forces of any country with propaganda that suggests it is a glamorous life and they are defending their country and then they are brainwashed and trained to kill on an order. Then they find out just what a horror the whole thing is when they see action. They aren't prepared for what they experience and that's why some of them crack.

As for bin Laden, let's assume that he is dead even though we have seen no evidence that could not have been faked. He left Afghanistan when, trapped by American forces, they were told to cease fire and he was allowed to hop over the border to Pakistan. Leaving aside any suspicions about the truce that allowed him to escape, that was the time for NATO to get out of the country.

That assumes we were there to get bin Laden and the evidence is that the real reason was commercial oil interests.

 

[hemet dennis]

I agree with that, including your last sentence.

The drones have damaged relationships with Pakistan too. That country seems to be more of a terrorist stronghold than Afghanistan ever was and I don't think that we can trust the government as far as you can throw a 10 kilo bag of kebabs. Attacking the country with drones, whatever the justification, is likely to make more difficult the efforts of anyone there that we can trust.

The alleged antics of Bales and others like him are gob smacking. Excuses along the lines that he was under stress don't wash. These people are supposed to be professionals and should be trained and controlled so that they are stopped before they go off the rails. Similarly, the excuse that it always happens in war is also unacceptable unless we believe that the methods and morals of Genghis Khan hold good today. The fact is that kids are enticed into the armed forces of any country with propaganda that suggests it is a glamorous life and they are defending their country and then they are brainwashed and trained to kill on an order. Then they find out just what a horror the whole thing is when they see action. They aren't prepared for what they experience and that's why some of them crack.

As for bin Laden, let's assume that he is dead even though we have seen no evidence that could not have been faked. He left Afghanistan when, trapped by American forces, they were told to cease fire and he was allowed to hop over the border to Pakistan. Leaving aside any suspicions about the truce that allowed him to escape, that was the time for NATO to get out of the country.

That assumes we were there to get bin Laden and the evidence is that the real reason was commercial oil interests.

It is not in Pakistani interests to have a strong Afghanistan.

 

[hemet dennis]

That assumes we were there to get bin Laden and the evidence is that the real reason was commercial oil interests.

That's bull.

 

[thaiturkey]

It is not in Pakistani interests to have a strong Afghanistan.

It depends on how you define 'Pakistan' in this context. The loyalties of the military and hill tribes close to the border are suspect, to say the least. The government often seems insecure and cannot be trusted as an ally of the West. There are businesses there, close to the border, making copy AK47s. I wonder who buys those.

Whatever the intentions of those with power in Pakistan, the country gives refuge to terrorists and extremists and there are terrorist training camps on its territory.

 

[hemet dennis]

It depends on how you define 'Pakistan' in this context. The loyalties of the military and hill tribes close to the border are suspect, to say the least. The government often seems insecure and cannot be trusted as an ally of the West. There are businesses there, close to the border, making copy AK47s. I wonder who buys those.

Whatever the intentions of those with power in Pakistan, the country gives refuge to terrorists and extremists and there are terrorist training camps on its territory.

Some areas of Pakistan are not under government control.

 

[thaiturkey]

Some areas of Pakistan are not under government control.

Quite so. And the government of the day can't be trusted either.

 

[hemet dennis]

Quite so. And the government of the day can't be trusted either.

They can be trusted to do what they think is in their best interest.

 

[Q9]

That's bull.

This response is absolutely brilliant. Truly one of the most profound statements ever made in a political discussion. At first, I didn't really lean one way or the other regarding the intentions of the Afghan war, but you have totally convinced me that your position is correct.

BTW, in case you didn't pick up on it, the post is dripping with sarcasm. I really don't know which is the truth at the moment, but you're not helping your case any. Proof, please?