when did parents stop parenting their children??

[welsummerchicks]

When an Amish family with no tv, strict yet loving, consistent and easily understood rules, no fear of spanking or other 'clear' punishments, an active and fulfilling religious, Christian life, literally dozens of relatives who are supportive, consistent and network effectively with the family, and a home isolated from urban crime and all the temptations of the world have a child who is in jail for murder, drugs and sex crimes...is it still how the child was parented that 'caused' this?

We want to think there is some simple, easy answer to every issue because that makes the issue seem manageable, it allows us to pigeon-hole the problem and walk away from it without any further thinking - or more importantly - effort.

A couple people come to mind.

The mother with the autistic kid who was told, 'you just need to be firmer and more consistent', who handed the kid over to the person who said that and said, 'here, be my guest, show us how it's done, we'll watch'.

The family with three decent, well behaved, church going, professional adult kids with college degrees, and one who got a nursing degree, and stole narcotics from the hospital and became a junkie, and sold drugs to all her junkie friends, and wound up in prison for most of her adult life.

The father with the son who was dyslexic, who used 'corporal punishment' on the son every time he came home with a bad grade, to show him 'good old fashioned discipline', and to be 'a good parent', instead of considering the POSSIBILITY there was a reason the kid couldn't do the work, and turned him into a bitter, barely literate angry criminal who hated the world and didn't care what happened to anyone, including himself.

 

[BlackBart]

Quote:
I agree.
I grew up playing with some kids that came from a large family. Middle upper income, church attending, boy scouts, lots of love and good parents. All treated equal.
Three of the boys have grown up to have good jobs, productive assets to their communities and families.
The fourth boy has been in and out of jail most of his life. He tends to drift toward trouble, mostly B&E's with a weapon. When his troubles first started to come to the surface, his parents tried almost everything from more one on one time to child psychologists and meds. Nothing worked. He is a career criminal.

There has been one very publicized truly hateful violent murder of a teenage girl in my area. They beat her, broke her arms and then drowned her. Lots of kids watched the beating, two were found responsible for her murder. The parents of the children who watched the beating stuck up for their kids. Fixating on the fact their children didn't beat the young girl, they did not participate. Not physically anyway.
BUT their children didn't stop the beating. They didn't call the Cops either.
This sort of protection has outraged the local community youth groups because they feel is not sending a good message to children. They are not being taught moral responsibility at home or the kids are not listening. But why? gang mentality?

As long as your not involved directly, just a observer, you are not responsible?
Reminds me of Lord of the Flies.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Adults have done the same thing. In a very sensational case, a number of adults did nothing while a woman was murdered in the street. They could hear her, even see what was happening. This wasn't kids. This was adults.

But to be perfectly honest, I think in that case of the kids, it is debatable whether those who were 'standing and watching' were 'part of the mob violence' or not. In a lot of cases, bystanders don't swing the weapon, but they cheer and egg the perpetrators on; an eager audience usually makes perpetrators feel more emboldened.

 

[farmerlor]

Structure, routine....those things are important to kids. When we were fostering those were the things that made the biggest difference in kids' lives. They grew to trust that when they got up in the morning I was making breakfast and that there would be clean clothes and chores to do and a clear and set bedtime and books to read and discipline that fit the crime and pats on the back for a job well done. Running around saying I love you, I love you is nothing to a kid. They need that foundation that only comes with trusting the person who's supposed to be running the show because they're supposed to be wiser and have a cooler head.

 

[noodleroo]

farmerlor; Exactly!

 

[arabianequine]

Quote:
Thank you I agree I have had some people say that and all I will say you don't know until you been there you can only try for so long now younger adults and still don't get they will have to learn the hard way cause I am done trying.

@ nonseq you know why cause those adults don't see how they act at home, in school, and those adults don't make them do things they don't wanna do.

@ thai I will not go into detail about why I feel the way I do because it is obvious you have no problems with kids or your kids and you don't and won't understand till you been there. I may not be perfect nor raised my kids perfect but I sure tried now that is over and they will be how they wanna be. My feelings and opinions are based on my experiences with my children/step children and the kids I see where I live and how they treat people.

 

[Skittlez]

One of the biggest changes I have seen since growing up, is that when I was a teen we had drive in movies, pool halls for minors (no alcohol),families with land that let us have cook outs and bonfires, we could sit downtown without getting a loitering ticket or harassed by the police, we had places to go. My teen daughter has none of this. Her friends have cell phones, ipods, computers, video etc. She invites her friends from town and all I hear is "I'm bored" or "what do you have to do?" Well, we have 6 acres, animals, bikes, books, trampoline and woods to play in. GO PLAY. They look at me like I am an alien.

I think most parents try very hard to raise their children properly, but in an age of technology, we are a little out of touch. I think we need more concrete things for kids to do. And cheaper.

When my daughter was in 6th grade, her teacher said she was too immature because she still played and enjoyed Magic Tree House books. I said so what, she has her whole life to be an adult, she is still a child and if she wants to play, then that is fine with me. I would rather her be a person with good morals and virtues than be too mature too soon.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
I decided this was a good place to bring this up again. Children of every socio-eco group need structure. I'm afraid that our lives are so distracting that we forget this, for ourselves too.

I deal with juvenile delinquents in court; the ones that have committed felonies. I can tell you from experience that there are some with the most loving, caring parents. Some children are beyond what we are discussing here.

I believe that children without proper structure in their lives tend to misbehave...

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
Another well balanced and reasoned post, thank you.

But you fell into that thinking trap again! And effort! Thinking and effort. Gee, be reasonable.

 

[Whispering Winds]

Quote:
OMG!! You are so right. I worked in a school system and the general theory among the teachers was if your kid misbehaved, got into trouble, got pregnant, or whatever outside the box, the parent was responsible EVERY single time. . .and I know people exactly like you described who had good parents . . .it all comes down to a personal choice, and IMO every living thing knows right from wrong unless they simply have not had any type of social contact with the world . . .I always told my kids it was so much easier to be bad than good, because to be good you HAD to work at it. Anyone can be bad . . .it's all about the right choice. I know good parents help, but my DH and I were good parents, we never hung out in bars, I took them to church, went to every school function, they had nice clothes, good friends . . .and still a couple of them fell off the "acceptable" bar and was an outcast for the rest of their young adult years. . .and they are all productive wonderful people now! I think raising kids is like being pecked to death by a chicken, and some of us luck out and some of us hit the wall.