Which are the rare breeds in highest demand now? Which ones will still maintain a high price tag in

[DocumentedPure]

From what I can see, there are some breeds that are newer than others, that are more expensive than very common breeds, but still lower in comparison compared to ones that have been on the market for considerably longer. For example, the chocolate orpingtons and the lavender orpingtons look like they have been on the market for sooner than silver laced orpingtons, however they look like they cost less. When I look at a chocolate orpington, it does not look flashy to me at all, and I think that others see it the same way so they do not want the very rare yet common looking bird. Especially when compared to exotic looking birds like svart honas and ayam cemani.

Which birds have the highest appeal and demand now, and which ones do you think will still have a high demand and appeal for the next little while?

 

[Ravynscroft]

What would I change? Not one thing... every single step in this process has taught me something, brought me closer to my goal, kept me going forward even when it's been steps backwards...

If you had asked me even just a few hours ago if I was successful, I would have said no... why? Because my breeds are not where I personally want them to be, quality wise... but then I saw something amazing, and for me, incredibly humbling... I have a reputation that even people I have never agreed with acknowledged... and that's not something that comes overnight... there's many, many more well known breeders who have much more time, money and care invested in their flocks, but this small step means a lot to me... and it does mean I am succeeding... thank you for bringing that to light...


Now, on topic... you are not being judged for wanting to make money off of a living animal, nor are you being crucified for looking to make a living off of them...but your perception is a bit narrow and all everyone has tried to do is give advice and help you to see reality... your response has been to dramatize others reactions, make broad assumptions and to end up insulting an entire forum...

You talk of 1500 hrs into this project and $10k invested and expect to be getting a return on that in 6 months... with what you are targeting, it's just not going to happen... and all we have done is try to help you see that before you experienced a disappointment so many of us have already experienced... it's going to cost much, much more than that with hundreds upon hundreds of hours more, and then it doesn't stop there... maintaining will cost and there is always work to be done, so hours keep stacking up...

And to breed any breed in quality takes much more than 6 months to acheive... it's a constant variable, but even to start you have to grow out your first generation, pick your breeders, then grow out their offspring to see what they turn out like... then cull undesirable traits, and breed back... or acquire a new line to add in, and then that brings in a whole new set of variables and you have to test breed, grow out, see what they're like, adjust your breeding program again, and so on and so on... this is in any breed... and customers are picky, if they're not perfect, they will let you and everyone else know it... so build a reputation of being open, honest and fair... that takes a lot of time investment... this pushes back your return timeline even further...

And then there's the market... maybe in one area, Ameraucanas are a dime a dozen, so you're lucky to sell chicks for $5... in another area, they're in high demand and little supply, so they're going for $20 per chick... but that will shift, things change and people change... ask for what any breed is going for and you'll get as many different prices as you do the number of people who respond... and any bird is only worth what another is willing to pay for it...

Yes, you see a well known breeder selling a pair of birds for let's say $200... nice profit, you think... but what you don't see is the 20 years that breeder has already invested, along with the thousands upon thousands of dollars spent to get to that point... am I exaggerating? Nope, not really... in 3 years alone, I think our investment has been your $10k a good several times over... not to mention my own personal labor costs, because that factors in too...

Don't you think we all would love to make our living doing exactly what we love? I guarantee it, but it's not stable nor is it financially realistic... you expressed concern about getting fertile eggs in winter, but in reality, there is no market for chicks in winter... most people do not want to winter brood, so you'll have to foot that cost yourself as well... you'll get better prices in spring, but come fall, most prices bottom out as well... so money coming in will be seasonal and must be managed to stretch for the rest of the years budget... but then unexpected issues will arise, predators will find a way to get or harass your birds, injuries will happen, hens will get stressed for whatever reason and stop laying... fertility will suddenly be an issue... cockbird turns mean... hens don't get along... etc...

These are things that can happen... will happen... there is no perfection when dealing with any animal, just as there is no perfect bird in any breed... an SOP is what is strived for, a constant goal, not what is acheived every day, or every year or even every 10, 20, or 30 years...

Nobody said you wanted to run a commercial egg plant, or a chicken mill... if you want to run a hatchery, then run a hatchery... expect hatchery prices though...

You want to compete with GFF? I say good luck to you... but realize what they do... they go to other countries, pay their prices, import those birds back, pay the permits and importation and transportation fees... and quarantine time, plus that fee on top of their feed and care and vet care... and then they bring them into their place, breed, grow those out... see what they get and cull, and breed again... and sometimes it ends up being a complete disaster... just because a pair or trio looks good themselves, doesn't mean their offspring will be any good... it's a risky investment, takes a lot of capitol to see it through and there still is no guarantee of any return...

I was not joking about my advice if you want to make some money, get a gold based cockerel and silver based hens, breed simple sex-links and sell the heck outta them... keep 1 large coop and keep your cost minimal... end return won't be a lot of money, but it would keep you in the black... enough to live off of? Eh, maybe a second coop and raise broilers... eggs, meat and guaranteed female chicks will always be needed... that's about all the guarantee you can get...

For rare breeds especially or any breed to produce quality, expect much longer than 6 months before you start to see even pennies returning on your investment... in many breeds, 6 months isn't even long enough for pullets to start laying... much less their offspring...

 

[Wandercreek]

OP,

I, too, felt insulted by your earlier comments.

What you don't realize here is that you will never get the kind of answers you are seeking by asking the way that you are. Someone mentioned it a page or two back that you come across as arrogant. I agree with this. Personally, even if I had the answers you want, I wouldn't be inclined to share them with someone that seems like a tantrum-throwing child that believes he is entitled to something simply because he wants it.

I've raised chickens for over 15 years. I've bought from Tractor Supply, local feed stores, mail-order hatcheries,the 'chicken man' that sells up on the corner, hobbyists, BYC members, and dedicated breeders. I've bought hatching eggs and hatched from my own flock. I've used broodies as well as a range of incubators from cheapy styrofoam up to nicer Brinsea's. I've taken some chickens to the vet, and not taken others to the vet. I've learned to vaccinate, medicate, and doctor for all kinds of bizarre chicken ailments. I've wiped hundreds of pasty butts. I've lost my entire flock to predators twice. I've built and rebuilt coops and pens and feeders and brooders and automatic coop doors and ....pretty much everything else chicken-related. I've bred for specific breeds, egg production, and even just to add more color to my flock. I've been a breed snob and I've been happy with a yard full of mutts. Through all of this, I've asked some of the dumbest questions imaginable here in the forums. Didn't stop people from helping me out though.

These days, because I am embarking on a new breeding program, I only buy breed-stock from reputable breeders that can demonstrate that their birds have the qualities I want to duplicate or build upon. I selected two breeds to work on...not because I think they are going to make a lot of money, but because I am truly interested in one as a hobby learning project and the other because it's such a great breed in general. Though I have several rare breeds, the two I am working on are neither rare nor specialty breeds. Heck, neither are even recognized breeds that I'm aware of. I have over 100 birds in my barn right now and only 18 have the potential to be in the breeding program.Only one of the eighteen is confirmed for the program. I still have a ways to go before I can really tell if any of the others will make it. I can't give you hard math on this, but I can tell you that it's a lot of money in feed costs waiting for birds to develop enough to see their potential. This is the kind of thing you have to look forward to if you are truly concerned about quality. I wouldn't do this if I didn't already have a customer base for table eggs. It's the only way I can rationalize having this many birds. Culls are still good for egg production. More importantly, and the main point I've been leading up to is this: I also wouldn't attempt this project without having the BYC folks there to help nudge me in the right direction.

This community is overloaded with people willing to help...and even more willing to be friendly and chat. Even the most knowledgeable in the bunch come here to learn from others. But just like any other community...don't be surprised if you see them circle the wagons when someone comes in aggressive.

My advice? You've already narrowed your possible breeds down to a short list. Narrow it some more based on those you find interesting or otherwise useful to you. Learn everything you can about those few breeds and then come here and ask the questions you can't find answers to about those breeds. Others that know about them will do their best to help you and will likely be happy to share with you the experiences they've had in cost vs. profit associated with raising that breed. You've already learned that the dollar signs you were imagining aren't likely to happen, and that no matter how many times you ask or how much you feel you are entitled to an answer, that particular line of questioning results only in frustration for everyone.

I might also suggest that a different approach might work for you. Have you considered chicken-related products rather than live animals? If you have building skills, coops and tractors sell quite well, especially now that it's so hip to keep chickens in urban backyards. Automatic feeders and waterers might also be good products to produce. Nest boxes, brooders, even 'play yards' sell. IMO, catering to the urban market has a fair bit of potential for profits.

Either way, if you have a genuine interest in chickens (rather than profits) and can lose the holier-than-thou approach, you'll get much farther in your quest for information.

 

[BYC910]

Depends how you would define successful. I would say Ravyn and I both consider ourselves successful breeders. I know I do. Because I don't make a huge profit doesn't mean I'm not successful.

Chickens for sure fad chickens lose that high price amazingly quick . You have to be the first one to find promote and market them to make the big dollars off them . Only a hand full have managed to do that . Then comes the next tier of the pyramid and the next and the next and each is wider and before you know it everybody and their brother has some for sale .
Starting any business is a loss from the beginning. Depending on what your business plan is and what start up cost are . I've always practiced the see a need and fill it plan . It is not truly a profitable business until all startup cost are paid back and income exceeds expense. If and when one achieves that then it is a profitable business . That does not mean it is a lucrative business only profitable . Supply and demand location lacition lacition . Most breeders who either build a breed or improve a breed rarely show huge profits . If the goal is breed improvement then Pyxis and Ravyn are as much a success as anyone in the chicken industry . If they are breaking even or showing a profit then they are a huge success .Can't wait to hear how you make out with your endeavor keep us posted .

 

[AmyPaperlady]

 
Chickens for sure fad chickens lose that high price amazingly quick . You have to be the first one to find promote and market them to make the big dollars off them . Only a hand full have managed to do that . Then comes the next tier of the pyramid and the next and the next and each is wider and before you know it everybody and their brother has some for sale . 

Starting any business is a loss from the beginning. Depending on what your business plan is and what start up cost are . I've  always practiced the see a need and fill it plan . It is not truly a profitable business until all startup cost are paid back and income exceeds expense. If and when one achieves that  then it is a profitable business . That does not mean it is a lucrative business only profitable . Supply and demand location lacition lacition .  Most breeders who either build a breed or improve a breed  rarely show huge profits . If the goal is breed improvement then Pyxis and Ravyn are as much a success as anyone in the chicken industry . If they are breaking even or showing a profit then they are a huge success .Can't wait to hear how you make out with your endeavor keep us posted .

Thank you for your insight.  It is impractical to start a business without there being some way that you can contribute or add to what is already there.  Or as you say, "See a need and fill it"  I like that.  It is catchy.  I appreciate your input.  You know, if I had any idea I was going to catch so much flack for starting this thread, I would have focused my efforts on reaching out in other ways, to get help from people.  I would imagine that people would be excited for someone to come along, make super rare breeds more accessible, and affordable.  But, whatever.  People here have no idea who I am, or what my values are, just because I make a post about interest in making money doing something I would enjoy. all the sudden I am the anti-Christ?  Just because I plan on keeping more than five chickens does not mean I am running a factory of 100,000 in my basement clipping beaks.  

I could see selling trying to buy all the equipment and be trying to sell leghorns or cornish cross buying 25$ feed bags at a time.  That, would be impressive.  Hear me out man.  Lets do some numbers.  Lets say that cream legbars sell for $20 a pop today.  They have been around for like five years now right?  IF I bought ten legbars, for $1.000 a piece five years ago, and they dropped down to be worth $20 THE VERY NEXT DAY, and stayed that price until today, Over five years, I would have made back my ROI.  That is generally the shortest time period economists plan for.  I could have made money on that deal, caeterus plurubus.  But you are right man, most industries plan for zero sum end result.  You are a wise man.  I understand there is risk.  I am about 700 hours of research into this project, I have risk staring me in the eye from every direction, and I have sworn up and down that I was going to quit about half a dozen times.  Honestly, I will be about $10,000 into this project, and have put in close to 1500 man hours, and will not make money for half a year.  It is a big risk I am going to take, and most people do not feel comfortable doing that, nor wish to afford to take that risk.  But I like risks.  I like to live dangerously.  But I am not stupid, I am putting in the work. But hey, I guess instead of a business loan I could buy a shinier, lower mileage car, (acceptable, normal type of debt) but how much does that really help me down the line?

Honestly, if I could just make a comfortable living, afford health insurance, and get out of debt, I would be happy.  I am not an oil tycoon. I talk like this because this is what I I studied in school.  Now I am a broke college student and who is $30 grand in debt.  **** right I am concerned about money, I have bills to pay.  Maybe some of the rest of you have great jobs, are on disability, or are stay at home moms or whatever, but I have to make a living.  I would sure as hell rather raise living breathing creatures than review other people's Excel Spreadsheets all day, if you know what I mean.  

But anyways, thank you for your input.  I would be happy to let you know how it goes.   Wish me luck.  It may be the end of me. 

I'm certainly not someone that has any answers for you, as far as breeding chickens for profit--heck, my zoning doesn't even allow me to have a cock, much less several to choose between every year! Nor have I had great success incubating and hatching. However, I think I may have an insight into the reactions that have been puzzling you. You come across as extremely arrogant. You appear to think that a few hundred (or even tens of thousands, eventually) hours of research with, as yet, little practical application, means you know all but the little details. Yes, you have chickens (half the size of my flock, not that it matters), but scale makes a difference. True, with feed, an economy of scale eventually kicks in, but I think not so much at the level you're thinking of reaching (I could be wrong). You have asked more experienced folks for advice. Some of the people available to you have decades of experience. Why not pay them the respect of believing that they might know something? Even the ones that don't have decades of experience still have years more experience, and also might, just might, know a few things...

Edited because I noticed a sentence fragment

 

[The Moonshiner]

With all due respect, you guys are both breeders of rare chickens.  If you could go back in time, what would you have done differently to be successful in this?

I got a chuckle out of this post.
Insight to how your brain works.
First how do you know we aren't successful?
And what is successful?
I know you believe successful means making money and since we have both told you there isnt money in chickens then we must ourselves never been able to make money so we have failed at success.
I really liked Ravyns reply post. You could see how they struggled with the question. Not because they were trying to unravel the mistakes they may have made along the way but for the same reason I wondered how to answer your question. What is success? Theres so many answers besides money. How exactly would someone measure success?
I feel ive almost always been successful with chickens. Sometimes not, sometimes at least small success other times pretty d*mn successful. Thing is does it really matter? And to who? Me, you, everyone? I'll always pick happiness over success.
Just like the whole reputation thing. I dont believe in the whole buy from a reputable breeder idea. Who decides who's reputable? You can do everything right and be known as a reputable breeder or not be known at all.
I have bought from "reputable breeders" who really werent good people. I have bought good birds from people that had no reputation. No one had ever heard of them.
People piggy back off other peoples reputation. We've all seen ads for "bev davis" marans or countless "GFFs line". People ruin others reputation by breeding junk 5 or 6 generations from the source and still tagging them a breeders name and reputation.
I try to buy good birds from good people. I like to see for myself instead of relying on others to tell me.Back to you success curiosity.
Ive been successful. I used to raise and show bantams. I did really well and ended up being quite well known at least locally. I even sold a lot of birds and made some money. I bought a used car once from chicken money.
Your dream...fame and fortune huh.
Let me tell you the more successful I became the least successful I felt. The better you become at anything the more some people will dislike you for it. It got to the point I had people asking me if I could quit showing up to shows so that others could win. I had people buy my birds then turn around and tell everyone they were their line and not related to mine. Finally with all the success I was having I got out of chickens for about five years.
About two months ago I picked up a trio of coronation sussex. Decent birds that I got for a steal of a price. The hens I was told were 4 years old and hardly ever laying. They did start laying and only about 1 egg each per week. Ive hatched 5 chicks now and a few eggs still in tbe incubator.
I feel pretty successful with them so far. Funny I feel successful when I havent really did anything with them except be at the right place at the right time and put some eggs in the incubator.
Rare breeds. Yes I raise rare breeds. Mostly just leghorns in rare colors. I feel really successful with them. I have several varieties. More then most. Ive started with some poor examples and worked with some for 5 or 6 years and made some real progress.
Now im into creating or recreating other colors and patterns using the various ones I have. Im having a lot of fun and feel successful with that. Successful with them in your terms? Not so much. Leghorns have always been I breed ive loved but not so much the rest of the world. Not many like the white eggs and even more dont like that theyre known asbeing flighty. I know i'll never get rich raising them but it doesnt matter. I dont even try.
So as I see it the times that you see as me not being successful have probably been my most successful and what you would consider being successful have been my lowest.
I think your question should of been your same old question.
Help me make money and tell me what you would of done different so you could be rich now.

 

[Pyxis]

With all due respect, you guys are both breeders of rare chickens.  If you could go back in time, what would you have done differently to be successful in this?

Depends how you would define successful. I would say Ravyn and I both consider ourselves successful breeders. I know I do. Because I don't make a huge profit doesn't mean I'm not successful.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Which birds have the highest appeal and demand now, and which ones do you think will still have a high demand and appeal for the next little while?  

NONE.
I saw your last thread about this subject too and I'll let you know what youre not seeing.
No breed that has a high price tag will hold that value for long. Ive seen it over and over and over.
Someone like GFF will introduce a new breed and attach a high price on them. People will go nuts and buy them up cause face it some people want something others dont have. Others think its cool to have high dollar chickens just cause they can afford them when others cant. Theres plenty of reasons why they sell.
But many like yourself see the price tag and get the idea its an easy way to make some fat cash. Problem is theres a hundred others having the same plan as you. Most end up a dollar short and a day late. By the time you get your chicks so have a ton of others. Then you have to raise them to breeding age. And so does everyone else and many will have bought theres before you and have chicks hatching before you.
By the time you get chicks available so has most of the others. So now theres a lot more supply then there was when you first bought yours. Price will drop and more and more chicks will come up for sell and price drops even more. You have to be way ahead of the game to have the success your thinking.
Look at any of the pricey breeds and what they sell for today compared to a year or two ago. None hold their value period. Take a poll. Theres thousands of chicken breeders on this forum and I dont figure theres any thats gotten rich with chickens. Maybe made a bit but not rich. Its like a kid wanting to be an NFL player when they grow u sure a few can make it but thousands of others dont.

 

[dheltzel]

The best way to make a million dollars in this business is to start with 2 million.

 

[Phage]

If you want to get your student debts paid off (and buy food without taking out more loans), I suggest you just spend the time "working on other peoples' s spreadsheets", because at least you will get paid, and can start learning your chicken business on the side.

You can learn a lot from reading/study but you will make mistakes and nothing beats real life experience with inexpensive birds.

There are many many educated people (by life experience and/or multiple degrees including vets) on this site, who have passed their knowledge on to other BYC members, who in turn pass it on to new members. I would be careful to not disrespect the vast majority of BYC members because most are or become well educated about chickens. They also give them a very high level of care, and are your potential buyers of high value birds.


To answer your initial question, have had many different beautiful breeds of chickens including new and desirable ones. I have also enjoyed improving several breeds over the years, but have for sure not made any money overall selling chicks.