White Sport Cream Legbars

[Brada Puhi]

Nice roo and hen there!

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Quote:

Aloha,

Iʻm thinking girl. We need an update!

This was female, a beautiful female, I have not bred the white sport again with anyone, I actually sent him to a friend who has ccl and sold the white female to another. I needed pen space, I was very sad to let him go, but I couldnt keep holding him in a breeding pen without a decent size run, I like all of my flock to have nice runs to live in. so the decision was made and she loves that guy so I am glad I did it. I need more land to do what I want to, but I dont think I would ever have enough funds to go with the land anyways

 

[HaplessRunner]

Aloha,

Not all legbars have blue eggs, right?

Aloha, Puhi

The historical gold legbar laid white eggs and the historical silver legbars laid light brown eggs. All cream legbars and their varieties should lay blue/blue-green eggs.

 

[dretd]

Quote:
I just got the 1971 British Poultry Standards book (2nd edition) so I am going to quote from there--there seems to be some hearsay (I had been told the Gold and Silver laid white eggs) around lots of things including egg color.

Pgs 197-200

Autosexing Breed Category (includes Brockbar, Brussbar, Cambar, Dorbar, Legbar, Rhodebar, Welbar)

Legbar
Origin: British
Classification: Light
Egg Colour: White or Cream

The Varieties are Gold, Silver and Cream

The note at the end of the Plumage, Cream Variety Female says:
Note: This is a crested variety, laying a blue, green or olive egg.

I know I'm beating it in, but I think its really important to understand: Legbar is the breed, Cream is a Variety--the only variety we currently have in the US, but a Variety of Legbar none the less.

 

[enola]

So, then the white sport could be another variety???? I think happlessrunner' s rooster is gorgeous!

 

[HaplessRunner]

I just got the 1971 British Poultry Standards book (2nd edition) so I am going to quote from there--there seems to be some hearsay (I had been told the Gold and Silver laid white eggs) around lots of things including egg color.

Pgs 197-200

Autosexing Breed Category (includes Brockbar, Brussbar, Cambar, Dorbar, Legbar, Rhodebar, Welbar)

Legbar
Origin: British
Classification: Light
Egg Colour: White or Cream

The Varieties are Gold, Silver and Cream

The note at the end of the Plumage, Cream Variety Female says:
Note: This is a crested variety, laying a blue, green or olive egg.

I know I'm beating it in, but I think its really important to understand: Legbar is the breed, Cream is a Variety--the only variety we currently have in the US, but a Variety of Legbar none the less.

This still does not address a fundamental question that I have yet to have answered. And that is: "How can they be the same breed if they lay different color eggs?" All chickens within the same breed should lay the same color eggs. Yes, the gold legbar and silver legbar are related and the cream legbar derived from some of the same heritage. But another breed was bred into this heritage that gave the cresting type characteristic and blue egg laying capability which are type features of the existing cream legbar.

I contend, as I have done in the past, the the term"legbar" is an historical anachronism that in the early days was applied to all three "varieties". That said, the cream legbar has few characteristics in common with the "related" gold and silver legbar. As you have frequently noted type makes the breed and color makes the variety. I would argue that egg color and cresting are part of "type" for which no gold or silver legbar shares. Since they do not share these "type" characteristics and they vary by more than just color, how can they be the same breed?

I really think that the difference in these fundamentals must be addressed. Why continue making the same historical mistake?

 

[dretd]

Quote:
I have answered this question before but I am afraid I am not very good at articulating the answer in a way that makes sense to you. Perhaps if I understood your point of view I could better frame the answer so that you can at least understand what I am saying even if you do not agree with me, so a question or three for you:

-Why do you want the Cream Legbar to be accepted and added to the APA SOP?

-Do you think the history of the breed, and the Standard that was accepted into the British equivalent of the APA SOP, matter to the drafting of the current Cream Legbar SOP, and if not, why not?

-You stated that "the Cream Legbar has few characteristics in common with the related Gold and Silver"-we know that the crest and blue egg (all simple dominant genes) are two type differences, could you please explain what the other type differences are between the Cream and the other two varieties Legbars-- becasue they have the exact same type description (other than the crest and the eggs) and I am really confused?

I look forward to hearing your reply!

 

[nicalandia]

The historical gold legbar laid white eggs and the historical silver legbars laid light brown eggs. All cream legbars and their varieties should lay blue/blue-green eggs.

silver and gold both laid white eggs

 

[nicalandia]

I have answered this question before but I am afraid I am not very good at articulating the answer in a way that makes sense to you. Perhaps if I understood your point of view I could better frame the answer so that you can at least understand what I am saying even if you do not agree with me, so a question or three for you:

-Why do you want the Cream Legbar to be accepted and added to the APA SOP?

-Do you think the history of the breed, and the Standard that was accepted into the British equivalent of the APA SOP, matter to the drafting of the current Cream Legbar SOP, and if not, why not?

-You stated that "the Cream Legbar has few characteristics in common with the related Gold and Silver"-we know that the crest and blue egg (all simple dominant genes) are two type differences, could you please explain what the other type differences are between the Cream and the other two varieties Legbars-- becasue they have the exact same type description (other than the crest and the eggs) and I am really confused?

I look forward to hearing your reply!

as far as I am concerned, the ONLY Physical difference between a regular Silver legbar and cream legbars to the creators of the breed was the Crest... and since egg color and chick color down cant be judge at shows, that is the ONLY difference between them.. as far as phenotype goes, now we can get into details about the blue egg gene and the recessive cream gene.. but none of that can change the fact Punnett and pease said the crest was the only difference between

 

[Brada Puhi]

Aloha,

I havenʻt read how they created the CCL, so does anyone know how much araucana blood is in the CCL? The others do not have araucana genes but perhaps it might have only taken one generational cross to get the blue egg gene and all the rest of the breedings were with PBR and brown legbars. I guess what Iʻm saying is that there might be other araucana genes in the CCL that are subtle and not one of the SOP characteristics being looked for, but are still present in the CCL and not present in the Gold legbar and silver(if that even still exists).

I think that araucanas are very different chickens in their muscle structure. Kind of more dense like. There are perhaps 30,000 genes in a chicken, perhaps 100 specific to chickens, but only 15 looked at in an SOP. My numbers are very loose. Just trying to make a point.

I also assume that the gold and silver legbars were made from PBR and brown legbars too.

More confused now?

Aloha, Puhi