Who Has the Best Marans?

[gojira]

I am not saying exhibition breeders are giving up on egg color. Some may be. I was just saying one breeder has mentioned he realized breeding towards the standard tended to lighten his egg color. As far as I know, he is still concerned with egg color, but is putting more emphasis on exhibition qualities.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Oh I thought that was your view on it.
You mentioned that breeders statement. Talk about having to compromise. Also that the breeders winning at shows aren't winning at egg shows and viseversa.
That breeding quality birds to best egg color birds will get you no wheres.
All your comments sounded like you where agreeing with the posters comment that you can't have top show marans and good egg color in one package.
So are you now saying you can breed and have both?
Or you can breed for both but you're only going to get one or the other?

 

[gojira]

Oh I thought that was your view on it.
You mentioned that breeders statement. Talk about having to compromise. Also that the breeders winning at shows aren't winning at egg shows and viseversa.
That breeding quality birds to best egg color birds will get you no wheres.
All your comments sounded like you where agreeing with the posters comment that you can't have top show marans and good egg color in one package.
So are you now saying you can breed and have both?
Or you can breed for both but you're only going to get one or the other?

I mentioned a breeder's comment, my observations, my own experience, and my take on things. I made it clear which was which when I typed them. You can breed for both, but you aren't going to get good examples of either. You will end up short on one or both goals. Like you can cross male line Black Breasted Red Old English Game Bantams to a female line, but you will end up short of either one. To breed Black Copper Marans for exhibition, you may be breeding away from factors that contribute to dark eggs, and breeding for dark eggs may be breeding away from factors that contribute to certain aesthetic traits. You can breed for exhibition, and try to have eggs as dark as you can, but they won't be as dark as eggs from lines selected solely for dark eggs. You can breed for dark eggs, and try to select for exhibition qualities, but the birds may not match the standard very well. I tend to type so that elementary school students can understand, and I can't make it any simpler than that.

 

[LilJoe]

Which breeder said this? I have talked to someone that does very well showing Black Copper Marans. He mentioned his birds that laid the darkest eggs were not the birds that did well in shows. There was more, but that was the gist of it. You can try to work on both, but you are going to have to compromise.

JG.
Well, his wife. She said that you can't have both in one package. Yes, I know that JG breeds for egg color but still...

 

[3riverschick]

If I was looking for some nice Marans with good egg color, I would cross Little Peddler with Heaven Sent Ranch. The birds would not be perfect, no bird is, but the gene pool is superior and everything needed to build an excellent strain is in it.
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Myself,

I prefer the clean legged English Cuckoo Marans. Best ones I ever had I got from Kelly Cratty who lived about 3 hours from me at the time. Kelly has passed away now
. But those Cuckoo's of his were virile, robust easy-keepers who laid lovely dark eggs. Kelly won national awards with his eggs. Kelly's birds were living proof you could have it all.
A while ago I got to checking the Net to see if any still around. Did find a person out there who still has the Cratty strain.
There's a project. Take the Cratty strain and cross them with a Fugate strain which had had feathered legs added to it.
Best,
Karen

 

[gojira]

If I was looking for some nice Marans with good egg color, I would cross Little Peddler with Heaven Sent Ranch. The birds would not be perfect, no bird is, but the gene pool is superior and everything needed to build an excellent strain is in it.
Best,
Karen

I am familiar with Little Peddler birds, but have not seen or heard of Heaven Sent Ranch other than their website. What about their gene pool is superior? An excellent strain in regard to what? There seem to be better Black Copper Marans out there, in regards to both conformation and egg color. If i remember correctly, little peddler is working with a very small gene pool.

 

[3riverschick]

Hi gojira,
yes Brenda is working with a very small gene pool. years ago some pure French eggs were left on her doorstep.
Years later it came out they were from a top French breeder. the government inspected the eggs and the birds and gave her the okay . her birds are pure French, there are no u.s. lines or blood in them. she culls very heavily . Her birds are beautiful. Heaven Sent Ranch had their own strain which is very nice . I believe it is non- French but haven't double checked that. they were one of the very first breeders to whom Little Peddler released birds and mixed them with their strain. so if you can mix little Peddler and Heaven Sent Ranch, you'd have about 75% little Peddler and 25% Heaven Sent Ranch . that's a really good ratio.
Best,
Karen

 

[EggSighted4Life]

So basically you are breeding for middle of the road conformation, and breeding for egg color? I guess you may not feel younger compromising with that mindset, but you seem to be compromising conformation for egg color, but you don't seem that strict on egg color either. What do you consider culling hard? Keep 1%? Less?

I guess if you haven't seen my birds or my eggs, you can't really say that I'm compromising either type or egg color.

Yes, my mindset says middle of the road while trying to improve on both aspects is NOT compromising one for the other or giving me low quality birds. If you sacrifice one for the other that MAKES a low quality bird IMO, as far as SOP goes. Breeding to a standard is hard work. And keeping your feelings out of it but keeping your eye keen takes a certain mindset. Took years to get where I am as far as a farmer mentality goes. But my OCD perfectionist brain makes it easy to walk that narrow path.

Hmm, let's see... culling hard. I accept no dq faults. Have even culled for white fluff. And collected from different breeding lines only to cull cull cull before I even allow my birds to mingle. Growing them out until at least 1 year to see how they develop. Learning the SOP over and over again, burning it into my brain and teaching myself how to discern what I should or should not be seeing. It's a process of training and growing so that these features become second nature to my understanding. And learning which parent passes on which trait and all the other little genetic secrets. Seeing as many other birds as I can. Constantly striving to become the best my birds and I can. Earlier on it was much harder to pick out say wrong eye color if I was focusing on say feather pattern or shank color. But now I can look and start to recognize the things that are just off. And look deeper at split wing and such. Even how many points are on the comb.

Really I selected Marans for their meat quality and nice egg color as a dual purpose breed. Never really thought of the birds as pretty. But they have grown on me and their green sheen is beautiful. The more Marans I see, I am satisfied with where I am starting. And boy have I learned to read between the lines when talking to people who "breed".

If I weren't that strict on egg color, then anything would pass. That's not the case and have culled 2 hens for egg color despite the fact they were great hens. (the shade comes from the cock, so it's important to know which hen the cocks come from) Again, I WILL cull for any fault. I can't say 1% or less because I haven't kept percentages yet. I am just getting started last year and have 4 birds kept out of about 30 + from 3 unrelated lines. But decided I can't strive for perfection before I ever start hatching or I will never hatch.

My birds may not be show winning (cuz quite frankly I don't care about shows or other keeping up with the Jones' type stuff and I worry too much about disease). But they ARE quality and lay a nice colored egg even if not a 9.

Never YET has anybody bought who would be uncomfortable buying from me again, and most travel not less than 90 minutes each way and some as far as 7 hours each way. I'm not currently NPIP and don't know if I will since this is a hobby for me. I did contact my vet to see what it takes to get a certificate of health for my flock which is supposed to be an alternative. Only reason I am even considering is so I can share my birds with others, who maybe don't have $140 to spend on a dozen SHIPPED eggs. Alchemist farm in the bay area have LP lines and others, their eggs are about $80 a dozen. GFF is said to have the only APA vetted flock and to me, their egg color is ANYTHING but impressive.

So yes, I do NOT feel as though I am compromising, with my mindset. I feel as though I have good stock that I will work to make GREAT stock. And there is NOTHING easy about that task. I have even considered throwing in the towel and allowing for barnyard mixing to just enjoy the hobby and feed my family. But the challenge is part of the fun and preoccupies my mind with constructive things instead of this scary, depressing world!

 

[3riverschick]

I get it eggexcitedforlife ,
I really do. for me one of the most satisfying things is the research involved in a project like this. I just love the research. I love to dig out the tiny details that that explain how strains throw their traits. I love to find the hidden flocks that express the best of a breed.
I am a firm believer in stating that ,"for one to be a successful breeder one must understand the nuances of a breed.". to do that one must study and understand the history and origins of a breed. how can we advance a breed if we don't know how we got to its present state ?
Karen