Who is walk who here?! Please, help w/ leash pulling!!

[Kaitie09]

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we used this too with our Chocolate Lab. It worked amazingly, and after about 6 months, we didn't have to use it anymore.

 

[dainerra]

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a well-fitted and properly used prong collar will neither dig in or pinch. It will tighten slightly, feels like if I had my hand around your arm and squeezed lightly with my fingers. First step in training class is to use the collar on yourself. Also, you keep pressure on the leash, no matter what collar is used. A quick *pop* and then slack.

Gentle Leaders don't work for all dogs. On some breeds, they just don't fit right. If you have it adjusted to the right tension, it sits at the corner of their eye. If you have it loose, it falls off the nose. The "sensation harness" has a HUGE list of complaints where it leaves giant sores on the dogs.

Honestly, I find it easier to start off like you had a new pup, no matter how old the dog is. Even a flat collar or limited slip can be enough for 99.9% of dogs - once they know what is expected of them!

 

[4 the Birds]

Pulling dogs need to have a prong collar. After they learn not to pull, they can use a regular collar/leash. Works like a charm!!

 

[CoyoteMagic]

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No they don't have to have a prong collar. You can use an alternative like a Halti or Gentle Leader. I personally perfer the Halti as it's doesn't apply pressuer to the nose until the dog actually pulls. I think the Gentle Leader is a bit too restrictive around the muzzle area. True, they are sometimes difficult to fit, and I doubt if they will fit a snub nose dog like a pug. I use a size 1 on my Cattle Dog even though it says she should wear a size 2. Many Service & Guide Dog groups are using "head-halters" now as part of their training gear instead of the choke collars.

 

[dainerra]

really, it depends on the dog. some dogs do well with certain equipment, others need more (or less). Honestly, the only thing that you could get 2 trainers to agree on is that the 3rd is wrong!

Here is my opinion on the gentle leader/halti use. It didn't work for my dog, the prong did. It got to the point where, if I even picked up the GL to go for a walk, he would hide. When he was wearing it, he walked head bowed, tail tucked, basically acted like he was going to be beaten at any second. The prong? He is up and dancing at the door at the first jingle. My little pup hasn't needed either. We use a limited slip collar with him and he is fine. That might change as he enters his "teenage butthead stage"

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Okay, I'm gonna be the odd man out on this one. We are schutzhund folks. Dogs on leash in our household mean it is time to work and pay attention to the leader (me). For a pulling dog I use a 40 foot leash attached to a chain collar on the live ring, not on the dead one. Off we go. Dog pays no attention, wanders, I reverse directions with substantial force. I have knocked a full grown Dobie off his feet with the force I use. I repeat the maneuver as many times as necessary. I have never needed more than 1-2 sessions before said dog is no longer taking his eyes off me and is happily at my side. You cannot teach someone who is not paying attention. Being on leash means it is time to pay attention. The 40 foot leash makes it his choice to pay attention or get pulled off his feet by his own exuberance. Honest dogs will choose to pay attention. They will choose to work close to you to see what you are doing and where you are going next because they quickly discover that out at the end of the 40 feet, they only find this out AFTER they've been knocked off their feet.

Constant pressure = no attention. With dogs (and with horses) I always use a pull-and-release technique administered as quickly as possible. I do not ever nag a dog with constant pressure. Constant pressure by the trainer shows a lack of trust in the animal. A quick pull-and-release shows you trust him to follow your suggestion.

Please understand that I love my dogs. But it's easier to love 'em when they are happily, willingly obedient. It makes them a joy to live with instead of a constant source of irritation. Being firm is not an unkindness. We all need to understand our place in the household. We want dogs who are a joy to own and that takes discipline. Believe it or not, it takes more discipline from the owner than it does the dog. The dog is willing to adapt to whatever we want IF we'll just be consistent about it. It's the being consistent part that takes the discipline for the owner.

As always, JMO


Rusty

 

[Okie Amazon]

We train in Schutzhund as well, but I'm wondering why the 40 ft. line? If my dogs are out 40 feet, they are not "working" (unless they are tracking). I don't get how pulling them off their feet at that distance corrects forging while heeling.

We always use a prong, even on pups. It's basically power steering for pooches. They self-correct and quickly learn that pulling=uncomfortable/no fun. NOT pulling = happy voice and prancing along side me looking up at my face. I rarely have to administer an actual correction, as I said, they self-correct, I just maintain the same leash position I normally would. Also as was said earlier, PRAISE CORRECT BEHAVIOR QUICKLY!!! If they even glance up at you, IMMEDIATELY praise; "YES" or "GOOD" or a clicker, whatever you choose to "mark" it with. I use vocal praise and with puppies, high value food treats, cut up steak bits etc.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

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It's not really about forging or heeling. It is about paying attention instead of wandering and sniffing. It's about coming in next to me and wanting to stay there because that's how he knows what I am gonna do next. I give them the relative freedom of the 40 foot line so they can decide for themselves that they'd rather stay close. By the time we go to any leash, the dog already knows how to heel, just not smartly. Then we go outdoors and I let them drag the line. Then I pick up the line and call them to me and we work just like we did indoors. Invariably the sights and sounds outdoors will entice them away. That's when my 40 foot line comes into play and by the second or third session, the click of the leash being attached to their collar already means it is pay-attention time. Work time. Ignore everything else time. And this works for me.

Also I've tried prongs but found them cumbersome. The pull-and-release correction is quicker with the light chain than with the prong, or so it seems to me, and I get better results with the chain. My goal with a chain is to use lighter and lighter corrections. But everyone does have a different "touch" on the various bits of equipment, which is why there is such a variety available. Also, I'm not a youngster and I freely admit my methods are older than the hills.

I had never even heard of clicker training until fairly recently. Personally I don't understand it. What happens when somebody else uses a clicker near you while you are working? How does the dog know which clicker is the right one? Or do you eliminate its use by then? And if that is the case, then why start it at all? To me it sounds more useful in utility than in obedience or tracking or protection work. I think I'd rather stick to vocal praise. It's faster and you "own" it, ie the dog never mistakes someone else's voice for yours the way he might with a clicker.

Perhaps the best advice is to find a method you agree with, that "feels" right, and then stick with it consistently. I think consistency or lack there of is the single biggest stumbling block for all new trainers and their dogs. There is such a temptation to try this and that and the other thing until the poor dog has no idea which method you are using now....and often neither do you! Because there ARE so many different methods, it is really easy to get lost and confused about which one is "right". Pick one that feels right and then STICK WITH IT consistently.

Again, JMO.

 

[FourPawz]

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Very good advice. I admire Schutzhund trainers like Ivan Balabanov because he uses so many motivational training methods. He motivates the dog to stay in heel position because he makes it so worth the dog's while, the critter can't help but want to succeed. Ivan's dogs don't even realize they're being trained.

 

[Okie Amazon]

Ivan uses plenty of compulsion as well, when the dog needs it. Soemtimes all positive just doesn't get it done.