Who's your favorite Bible Teacher and Christian Discussion.

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Yes we all do fall short but that is probably the least understood, most misused, often quoted Scripture in the Bible. Scripture is full of admonishments and exhortations to beware of false teachers. And I would encourage and exhort you to look not at the numbers and how big and full his santuary is but rather at what he teaches.

Wide is the road and narrow is the gate. "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." (2nd Tim. 4:3).

I do not know how many Joel Osteen is bringing to Christ but this I do know - it does no good to bring someone to Christ if that person is not saved by Christ. Granted, it is ALWAYS Christ who does the saving and not man. But by the power of conviction from the Holy Spirit does one come to a place of confession and repentance. Having said that, I have personally heard Joel Osteen mention several times that he has "lots of homosexuals who attend" his church.

I think that speaks volumes. When I read the Bible I see that EVERY person who had an encounter with Jesus was changed. Immediately. They were either brought to the point of confession and repentance upon seeing their sin or they were hardened and drove away. The Bible says that light can have no fellowship with darkness (2nd Cor. 6:14) so one must ask themselves how a homosexual can continue to come and attend a church on a regular basis. What is church if not a place to come and worship God and be taught His truth? And those who worship God must do so in spirit and in truth. There is no truth in a practicing/unrepentent homosexual coming to a church on a regular basis and pretending to worship God. What they seek is not conversion and change but rather acceptance and tolerance. That does neither them any good nor the church.

So it should never be a numbers game but rather a heart issue. And, for the record, I was not "trashing" anyone's choices. I simply stated facts that came from Joel Osteen's mouth himself. Exactly how is that "trashing"? Or could it be that sometimes the truth hurts?

God Bless,
 
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Yes we all do fall short but that is probably the least understood, most misused, often quoted Scripture in the Bible. Scripture is full of admonishments and exhortations to beware of false teachers. And I would encourage and exhort you to look not at the numbers and how big and full his santuary is but rather at what he teaches.

Wide is the road and narrow is the gate. "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." (2nd Tim. 4:3).

I do not know how many Joel Osteen is bringing to Christ but this I do know - it does no good to bring someone to Christ if that person is not saved by Christ. Granted, it is ALWAYS Christ who does the saving and not man. But by the power of conviction from the Holy Spirit does one come to a place of confession and repentance. Having said that, I have personally heard Joel Osteen mention several times that he has "lots of homosexuals who attend" his church.

I think that speaks volumes. When I read the Bible I see that EVERY person who had an encounter with Jesus was changed. Immediately. They were either brought to the point of confession and repentance upon seeing their sin or they were hardened and drove away. The Bible says that light can have no fellowship with darkness (2nd Cor. 6:14) so one must ask themselves how a homosexual can continue to come and attend a church on a regular basis. What is church if not a place to come and worship God and be taught His truth? And those who worship God must do so in spirit and in truth. There is no truth in a practicing/unrepentent homosexual coming to a church on a regular basis and pretending to worship God. What they seek is not conversion and change but rather acceptance and tolerance. That does neither them any good nor the church.

So it should never be a numbers game but rather a heart issue. And, for the record, I was not "trashing" anyone's choices. I simply stated facts that came from Joel Osteen's mouth himself. Exactly how is that "trashing"? Or could it be that sometimes the truth hurts?

God Bless,

Truth seems to hurt you...I am secure! Glad you are the only one to understand that verse
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This is my last word on this. YOU are about to get the thread closed because of your judgemental arrogance! I for one would love to see it stay open.
 
I'd rather a church accepts homosexuals than my violent ex. I was stupid enough to stay when I was the target. I may have been 19 and pregnant with my 3rd, but when he whipped my 7 mth old, I was gone. He still is welcome at that church, so I got gone.
 
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Yes we all do fall short but that is probably the least understood, most misused, often quoted Scripture in the Bible. Scripture is full of admonishments and exhortations to beware of false teachers. And I would encourage and exhort you to look not at the numbers and how big and full his santuary is but rather at what he teaches.

Wide is the road and narrow is the gate. "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." (2nd Tim. 4:3).

I do not know how many Joel Osteen is bringing to Christ but this I do know - it does no good to bring someone to Christ if that person is not saved by Christ. Granted, it is ALWAYS Christ who does the saving and not man. But by the power of conviction from the Holy Spirit does one come to a place of confession and repentance. Having said that, I have personally heard Joel Osteen mention several times that he has "lots of homosexuals who attend" his church.

I think that speaks volumes. When I read the Bible I see that EVERY person who had an encounter with Jesus was changed. Immediately. They were either brought to the point of confession and repentance upon seeing their sin or they were hardened and drove away. The Bible says that light can have no fellowship with darkness (2nd Cor. 6:14) so one must ask themselves how a homosexual can continue to come and attend a church on a regular basis. What is church if not a place to come and worship God and be taught His truth? And those who worship God must do so in spirit and in truth. There is no truth in a practicing/unrepentent homosexual coming to a church on a regular basis and pretending to worship God. What they seek is not conversion and change but rather acceptance and tolerance. That does neither them any good nor the church.

So it should never be a numbers game but rather a heart issue. And, for the record, I was not "trashing" anyone's choices. I simply stated facts that came from Joel Osteen's mouth himself. Exactly how is that "trashing"? Or could it be that sometimes the truth hurts?

God Bless,

Maybe he is thinking to love with an truly, no holding back, unconditional love -- no matter what. Jesus did love so very unconditionally. So unconditional that I cannot even fathom it. I guess that's what I usually take away from someone, like Joel Osteen. I think he could very much disagree with someone's lifestyle, yet still love them. We can all pick one thing out that the Bible says is a sin and we are most definitely against it, but then there are things that we do everyday, like overeat or maybe talk in an unloving way about someone else that are just as much a sin. So I don't know. That's why I don't try to pick and choose. Makes my life easier.

Our group of friends like to help out needy families and children. This year I called our church to see if they knew of anyone in the community that could use some help. The church secretary gave me some info on an unmarried couple, who were expecting their first baby. They attend our church when they can. She wondered if we would even consider helping them out because they were not married and having a baby. I had to say that I laughed right out loud because why on earth would we not help them. Yep, I'm sure this was not planned, but a baby is a blessing nonetheless. And I am not a perfect soul. Hubby and I did not wait to save ourselves until marriage. So many believers in Christ have done the same thing that we had done. The secretary said that some people would balk at the thought of helping this couple because of the situation they are in. Jesus will always believe in them -- even when they have fallen from grace. Why shouldn't I?

Just my two cents on what my take is on it.
 
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While the Bible does not explicitly say that I would agree wholeheartedly with you that the principal is there. Both of them. And it does mean EVERYONE. However, you and I may disagree on what "love" is.

Anyone who accepts, tolerates, condones sinful behavior and does not let the person engaged in such know, they are NOT loving them. The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). And those who practice sin will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 7:21-23 and "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1Cor 6:9-10)

You can't tell me that you are loving someone when you don't care enough about them to tell them that what they are doing is leading them to eternity in Hell where they will be tormented for all of eternity. If you truly love someone you would do everything you could to help them and not do anything to encourage them in their sinful behavior. Silence is deadly. And so is acceptance, denial, or fear of being perceived as "judgmental". Love is truly doing what's best for the other person whether they want it or not.

That's what Jesus did for us. He died for us while we were yet sinners and an enemy of God. Not one of us would have asked him to die for us. We love Him because He first loved us. And once we understand that and become truly saved, the last thing in the world we want to do is disobey God and sin against Him. That is the mark of a true Believer.

And please know I'm not trying to beat up or pick on Joel Osteen but I disagree that he is doing what God commanded him to do. Joel Osteen is a pastor and the Bible give clear instructions on the responsibilities of a pastor. The Bible also has some of the sternest warnings and judgments against those "shepherds" who failed the flock. We are told to go forth and preach the Gospel to all men and to make disciples of all men. We aren't commanded to make some happy place for people to come to and get their "feel good fix" for the week. Jesus never did that and neither should we. That is not "love".

Btw, thanks for the info on Jon and Greg. I thoroughly enjoyed Jon's exhaustive teachings on Revelation.

God Bless,
 
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Never claimed to be the only one to understand that verse. I claimed what I said.

I too would like to see this thread stay open and what has closed threads in the past has not been folks who spoke the truth but rather name calling and flaming by those who didn't like what they read.

God Bless,
 
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I went to hear Billy Graham throughout my life, I always came home with so much inspiration. He truly was one of a kind!
 
I grew up with a mother, who insisted on letting anyone in her path know why they were not a good Christian. Do you know how many people were driven away by the likes of her? So many that it makes me very sad to even think about it. It was not done out of love at all. She felt that she was a much better Christian than most people. Our family was a mess, yet she could see no wrong. Just the wrong in everyone else's life. I think this is where we have to be careful on how we speak with others. After 12 years of not really speaking to my mother, I am able to. And I am not talking about hanging out talking or going to dinner together -- just if something happens within the family, I am able to wholeheartedly be okay with talking with her. I forgave her long ago, but I will always be wary of her. Sometimes the devil does not only lie outside our church walls, but within, too. My mother is a very scary example of what not to be.
 
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