Why do my 12 Week old chicks keep dieing?!?! Staggering, foul poop, weak...

[Barredhen]

I posted at the beginning of this month with a single sick chick (details and poop pics here)

I'll be as brief as I can...

HISTORY: Bought them from a local breeder, very nice tidy place. 9 weeks old when I bought them. One died the first night.
They have lived in my tack room in the barn to adjust to the cold before going to the coop so I'm not sure how they could possibly pick up something - seems like they had to come with it. But I don't know!

SYMPTOMS: loss of weight, weakness, lack of appetite, lays down often, smelly poop, ranging in from normal looking poo to white froth to watery poo to a thick red foam. Eventually they stagger around (a weak uncoordinated hypoglycemia look) and spend most of their time sleeping in a corner until they die. Seems to take 3-4 days from symptoms of "uh oh that ones not eating well and lays down often" to dead.

I've never had sick chicks, never had coccidia in my birds and hadn't even heard of Mareks until this. But I don't know what to treat or if I should just stop infecting my coop and cull them all?!? 3 chicks down now, 3 look OK yet.

TREATMENT so far: I did give selenium & E paste (pea size amount of goat paste) Vit B complex (one drop) & Probiotics
I did a 6 day treatment of Corid (the liquid, 2.5ML in 1 QT of water is the dose I saw by googling) One died (the one I originally posted about) during the Corid week and one became sick yesterday the day they came off treatment.

I have NO bird savvy vet to help.

Suggestions?

Does this sound like Mareks?

Should I try something else for coccidia or continue Corid or was that the correct dose?

Thankful for any help

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Sounds like coccidiosis... I would treat with Corid..

Did you still give vitamins during the Corid treatment? If so it could make it irrelevant since it works by mimicking thiamine to starve out and slow the growth of coccidia.

Some have shown resistance to Corid and need to be treated with a sulpha drug.

While it could be possible... no, it doesn't sound like Marek's to me.

Sorry for your losses.

 

[Barredhen]

Sounds like coccidiosis... I would treat with Corid..

Did you still give vitamins during the Corid treatment? If so it could make it irrelevant since it works by mimicking thiamine to starve out and slow the growth of coccidia.

Some have shown resistance to Corid and need to be treated with a sulpha drug.

While it could be possible... no, it doesn't sound like Marek's to me.

Sorry for your losses.

Thankyou.

I did treat with Corid 6 days. Should I continue?

I have DiMethox 12.5% I could try? Should I treat the "OK" looking 3 with DiMethox too or just the clearly sick chick?

I did stop the herbs and vitamins when giving Corid.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I did stop the herbs and vitamins when giving Corid.

Ok, that's good...

Calling in some valuable resources about meds and dosing as I am unfamiliar... @casportpony @Eggcessive.. TIA

 

[Melky]

I posted at the beginning of this month with a single sick chick (details and poop pics here)

I'll be as brief as I can...

HISTORY: Bought them from a local breeder, very nice tidy place. 9 weeks old when I bought them. One died the first night.
They have lived in my tack room in the barn to adjust to the cold before going to the coop so I'm not sure how they could possibly pick up something - seems like they had to come with it. But I don't know!

SYMPTOMS: loss of weight, weakness, lack of appetite, lays down often, smelly poop, ranging in from normal looking poo to white froth to watery poo to a thick red foam. Eventually they stagger around (a weak uncoordinated hypoglycemia look) and spend most of their time sleeping in a corner until they die. Seems to take 3-4 days from symptoms of "uh oh that ones not eating well and lays down often" to dead.

I've never had sick chicks, never had coccidia in my birds and hadn't even heard of Mareks until this. But I don't know what to treat or if I should just stop infecting my coop and cull them all?!? 3 chicks down now, 3 look OK yet.

TREATMENT so far: I did give selenium & E paste (pea size amount of goat paste) Vit B complex (one drop) & Probiotics
I did a 6 day treatment of Corid (the liquid, 2.5ML in 1 QT of water is the dose I saw by googling) One died (the one I originally posted about) during the Corid week and one became sick yesterday the day they came off treatment.

I have NO bird savvy vet to help.

Suggestions?

Does this sound like Mareks?

Should I try something else for coccidia or continue Corid or was that the correct dose?

Thankful for any help

I would consider necropsy if have another death if a vet near at all or contact states lab for it. This way you can pin point the true cause of death and know for future management how to prevent. Mareks Disease in unvaccinated birds is one of the number one killers of chickens. Frequently local breeders do not vaccinate. I would ask before purchasing if the birds have been vaccinated on day of life one for Mareks and if the breeder is NPIP certified. If not would not buy. Once it is in the flock those who live are life time carriers and continually reinfect flock members each year especially if unvaccinated. Most chicks below 20 weeks are at risk.

Another disease is coccidiosis. The best prevention is medicated feed the first 8 weeks of life to protect against cocci that lives in the environment outside the brooder. If feed unmedicated feed chickens may not be able to protect themselves against coccidiosis. Bloody stools tends to be a classic sign of it but could also be something else.

If chickens do not respond to Corid and still have sick chicks would try to find a vet near you that would see them. Most vets have someone in the office competent in avian science. The office would be able to tell you. They may also need an antibiotic see below in article like Tylosin or amoxicillin.

In the mean time here is an online poultry vet resource that may help. It reviews prevention and treatment well. Good Luck!

http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/coccidiosis

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I agree, it sounds like Coccidiosis.
Re-treat with Corid. Don't give any vitamins or supplements during treatment.
I would dose all the chicks at a rate of 2 teaspoons of 9.6% Corid liquid per gallon of water. Give for 5-7 days - make sure this is the ONLY water available during that time period. Mix a fresh batch at least once a day.

In the other thread you kept mentioning the one was eating shavings, but not food.
What type of food do you feed and do you supply a source of grit to your chicks?

Have you checked to make sure the crops are emptying overnight?
How much heat, if any are you still providing to the chicks?
Updated photos of the poop on the sick ones would be good.
How old is your feed - any mold, mildew, etc.?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Another disease is coccidiosis. The best prevention is medicated feed the first 8 weeks of life to protect against cocci that lives in the environment outside the brooder. If feed unmedicated feed chickens may not be able to protect themselves against coccidiosis. Bloody stools tends to be a classic sign of it but could also be something else.

This I disagree with... I think the BEST prevention is keeping the bedding dry, water poo free, and not over crowding.

I think medicated feed is useful in crowded conditions.. beyond that I feel as though it *could* be contributing to resistant strains of coccidia. And some people who use medicated feed STILL have to treat for coccidiosis.

All chicken droppings and chickens (chicks too) carry SOME coccidia... it's ONLY a problem when there is an overgrowth (or bloom) of them. Chicks are working on building their own resistance everyday and do just fine IF not overwhelmed by it.

Now, some pastures present special condition due to weather patterns or such. And I have made the mistake of the bedding looking dryer on top than it was underneath causing an outbreak. So I'm not pointing fingers or saying I am any better than. Things happen and we hopefully learn from our mistakes and to work WITH our personal conditions.

Only a couple types of coccidia will actually cause bloody stools.

I would ask before purchasing if the birds have been vaccinated on day of life one for Mareks and if the breeder is NPIP certified. If not would not buy.

NPIP, YES!

NO Marek's vaccinated birds welcome at my place EVER... it doesn't stop them from being infected... it simply hides the disease symptoms so they can continue to infect everyone else, IMO.

HISTORY: Bought them from a local breeder, very nice tidy place. 9 weeks old when I bought them. One died the first night.

Were they outside already or in a brooder still or broody raised?

Did you let the breeder know about you first night loss? What was their response?

 

[rebrascora]

I agree with @EggSighted4Life The Marek's vaccine is problematical and even if a breeder vaccinated day old chicks, they still need to keep them under very strict biosecurity during the first few weeks to enable to vaccine to develop in the chicks' systems before any possible exposure to the virus. The vaccine comes in 1000 dose quantities and your average breeder is only going to have maybe 50 chicks hatching at any given time and the vaccine doesn't keep, so both from a financial and logistics point of view, vaccinating chicks is not viable (most people do not want to pay significantly over the odds for vaccinated chicks when it costs less than $1) from a hatchery and no guarantee of success.

At 9 weeks it is possible that you are dealing with Marek's or Coccidiosis. They are by far the commonest killers of chicks that age. The stress of moving home may well have triggered outbreaks of Marek's but it can also expose them to new strains of coccidiosis that they have not previously encountered and do not have resistance to. The death the first night makes Marek's more likely of the two and Marek's can make birds more susceptible to coccidiosis because it compromises the bird's immune system, so it could even be a combination of the two. What you don't mention is the time frame of them becoming sick. With Coccidiosis, I would have expected the sick ones to all become ill at the same time or within a few days of each other. With Marek's you might have 1 or 2 cases at once and then a few weeks later perhaps 1 or 2 more, in my experience of it.

When you were treating with Corid did you ensure that the sick birds were drinking enough of the medicated water. If they are too far gone and they have lost interest in food, they often don't drink enough for the medicine to have an effect. In those cases a direct dose of a few drops of the undiluted Corid directly into their beak for the first few days of treatment can make all the difference.

The problem with Corid is that, if it is neurological Marek's and not Coccidiosis, the lack of vitamins, particularly vitamin B complex during that Corid treatment phase can potentially make them worse.
A faecal float on a sample from a sick bird by a local veterinary practice or your state veterinary diagnostics lab would be beneficial or as others have suggested, a necropsy on a dead chick.

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. It really is heart breaking to have such young birds die and feel so helpless to stop it.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Another disease is coccidiosis. The best prevention is medicated feed the first 8 weeks of life to protect against cocci that lives in the environment outside the brooder. If feed unmedicated feed chickens may not be able to protect themselves against coccidiosis. Bloody stools tends to be a classic sign of it but could also be something else.

fwiw - it's Coccidia which is a protozoa, not Cocci which is a bacteria.
Coccidia can be found in poop, soil, etc. it can be found inside the brooder and outside of the brooder. It thrives in wet warm moist environments. Chicks poop in their water, the bedding gets wet -there's a breeding ground right there. Let's face it, chick(en)s eat poop, this is how it's re-introduced.
Medicated feed does have a minimal amount of (usually) Amprolium which acts as a Thiamine blocker and starves out the Coccidia, this will *hopefully* allow chicks to build resistance. While there is nothing wrong with medicated feed, chicks should always be monitored for symptoms of lethargy, loose stools that have mucous or blood (only1-2 strains show up as blood), going off feed, huddling, etc. Read your feed bag Most medicated feeds will instruct you not to clean up your brooder except for wet areas and excess poop since chicks need exposure. If Coccidia is only found on the "outside of the brooder" then there would be no need to offer medicated feed to brooder raised chicks.
There are plenty of threads where brooders have been kept clean religiously, medicated feed has been provided and someone still has a very severe outbreak.
Here's more information about Coccidiosis in poultry and how each strain affects the different sections of the intestines. An interesting read.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/coccidiosis/overview-of-coccidiosis-in-poultry

 

[EggSighted4Life]

fwiw - it's Coccidia which is a protozoa, not Cocci which is a bacteria.

A coccus (plural cocci) is any bacterium or archaeon that has a spherical, ovoid, or generally round shape. It is one of the three distinct bacterial shapes, the other two being bacillus (rod-shaped) and spiral-shaped cells.