Why do some flocks get coccidiosis and others don't if it's everywhere

[junebuggena]

You don't need to feed medicated feed for a full 16 weeks. The amount of amprolium in medicated feed is a very small amount, meant to provide a bit of protection to young chicks while their immune systems begin to develop. By the time they are more than two months old, the amount of amprolium in the feed is so small, it has very little impact. I always suggest giving chicks medicated start for at least a couple weeks when first exposed to soil. After that, they have had a chance to develop resistance and don't really need it anymore.
It should also be noted that the amount of amprolium in medicated feed is not sufficient to treat an active outbreak.

 

[Scotty from BI]

You don't need to feed medicated feed for a full 16 weeks. I always suggest giving chicks medicated start for at least a couple weeks when first exposed to soil. After that, they have had a chance to develop resistance and don't really need it anymore.

So this is interesting. Do you suggest waiting until they are ready to come out of the brooder and into the run before giving them medicated food? If so, will they accept the change of food readily. From what I have read, Amprolium is bitter and some animals will not drink water with it, so I wonder if the food is not as palitable also? (hypothetical, since I doubt most of us would taste their feed to test this).

 

[TwoCrows]

Its totally up to you what you feed. Medicated feed wont hurt your chicks. The amprolium fools the cocci into believing its Thiamine, which they need to survive and reproduce. The cocci consume it and die. Amprolium can also block Thiamine absorption.

I prefer not to feed medicated feed and rather their immune systems develop on their own. But its totally up to you. At some point in their lives they can still develop a cocci infection, however that doesn't mean you should ignore their ability to develop immunity. At some point on or off medicated feed, they have to develop immunity. A good immune system will help them later in life to ward off cocci and other infections.

I raise all chicks on wire and use probiotics several times a week all throughout their lives. The chicks come into just enough cooci poop to develop immunity without getting sick. 70% of the immune system lies in the gut. Keep it heathy with probiotics and vitamins.

 

[Scotty from BI]

I read the Purina website re; medicated feed and it says to never clean the brooder unless you have to. So it follows that if I were to feed non medicated, I would have to clean the coop regularly. To get the same effect.

 

[Kiki]

I personally would take advice from a real live chicken keeper before I would take advice from a for profit company.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Coccidiosis is caused by the numbers of certain protozoa in the chicken’s digestive tract getting out of hand. There are different strains of those protozoa, each strain colonizes a specific portion of the digestive tract. Some attack more sensitive areas so they are more dangerous. Some protozoa in the digestive tract are good, it helps the chicken develop immunity to that specific strain, it’s when the numbers get out of hand that the chicken gets sick. If the chicken is exposed to that strain of protozoa for two to three weeks they develop an immunity to it but that does not give them immunity to any different strain.

The life cycle of that protozoa is that the bugs lay “eggs” (not true eggs but close enough for this discussion) in the chicken’s gut. It passes out the rear end. It needs about two days in warm moist soil, especially soil with poop in it, to develop enough so it can “hatch”. The chicken eats it when foraging and it develops inside the chicken. That’s a big reason that wet brooders, coops, and runs are dangerous, those cocci protozoa thrive in those conditions. The chicken eats enough so that the number gets out of hand. A dry brooder, coop, or run helps prevent the numbers getting out of hand.

All strains of Coccidiosis protozoa are not present in all soil. Some won’t have any of these protozoa, some can have several different strains. Coccidiosis is generally more of a problem in warm moist areas like the Southeast of the US. That doesn’t mean it can’t be present in a cool dry area, just that it is more likely to be present in warm moist areas. Areas around a waterer can stay moist.

I always suggest you check the label to see what medication is in your medicated feed. It’s almost always Amprolium but almost always does not mean each and every time. If it’s not only Amprolium but is something else or something else plus Amprolium, what I’m going to say about Amprolium alone does not apply.

Amprolium in the dosage in medicated feed does not prevent all the protozoa from reproducing. It greatly inhibits the ability of that protozoa to reproduce. It allows enough to reproduce so there is a constant supply so the chicken can develop the immunity it needs. If you have a wet brooder, coop, or run and feed medicated feed it is still possible for the chicken to get Coccidiosis even if you are feeding medicated feed. But medicated feed with Amprolium greatly improves your odds. That’s still not an excuse for a wet brooder, coop, or run.

What often happens is that chicks are fed medicated feed while they are in the brooder but have never been exposed to the protozoa that causes Coccidiosis. When they hit the ground and are first exposed to that protozoa the medicated feed is stopped just when it is needed the most.

I personally do not use medicated feed. I keep the brooder very dry and introduce dirt from the run to the chicks as soon as they learn to eat their regular food, usually Day 2 or 3 in the brooder. I feed them more dirt every three or four days to give them a steady supply of that protozoa. By the time they hit the ground they have developed the immunity they need.

There is nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed. It will not hurt your chicks. If you have a history of Coccidiosis it is probably a really good thing to do. But if they have not been introduced to the protozoa it does no good.

 

[centrarchid]

Short and sweet. Interactions between genetics of cocci and genetics of bird X density of adults and juveniles shedding spores x soil moisture conditions that can vary with weather events. Outbreak intensity can be impacted by density of vulnerable birds and conditions of brooder. Thermal conditions can impact how deep into health issues individuals go as the cocci colonize their intestinal tracts.

Sum up, all my birds carry cocci. Every last one as do a lot of critters that move about over the same soil. I manage how hard the infection process hits and take into account how a group / cohort of birds are taking the infection. Most not treated and treatment can be proportional.

 

[Scotty from BI]

What often happens is that chicks are fed medicated feed while they are in the brooder but have never been exposed to the protozoa that causes Coccidiosis. When they hit the ground and are first exposed to that protozoa the medicated feed is stopped just when it is needed the most.

I personally do not use medicated feed. I keep the brooder very dry and introduce dirt from the run to the chicks as soon as they learn to eat their regular food, usually Day 2 or 3 in the brooder. I feed them more dirt every three or four days to give them a steady supply of that protozoa. By the time they hit the ground they have developed the immunity they need.

There is nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed. It will not hurt your chicks. If you have a history of Coccidiosis it is probably a really good thing to do. But if they have not been introduced to the protozoa it does no good.

Excellent informed response. Based on what you said here, I am thinking an organic non medicated starter feed from Modesto mills which has 22% protein for the first 6 weeks. Then perhaps, depending on their development and the weather (it will be November which is transitional here), I will start them off on 18% protein Purina medicated as they start going out to the run. Both my run and coop are kept fanatically clean and dry, but there is an uncovered section of the run which does get wet. This is my third replacement flock and there are no other birds present at this time. There was never any evidence of sickness or parasites of any kind in any of my previous birds. Or do you recommend that I keep them on the Modesto mills starter until lay?

Thanks again

 

[centrarchid]

Excellent informed response. Based on what you said here, I am thinking an organic non medicated starter feed from Modesto mills which has 22% protein for the first 6 weeks. Then perhaps, depending on their development and the weather (it will be November which is transitional here), I will start them off on 18% protein Purina medicated as they start going out to the run. Both my run and coop are kept fanatically clean and dry, but there is an uncovered section of the run which does get wet. This is my third replacement flock and there are no other birds present at this time. There was never any evidence of sickness or parasites of any kind in any of my previous birds. Or do you recommend that I keep them on the Modesto mills starter until lay?

Thanks again

You have a lot of known conditions with respect to cocci in your setting? Other than that your approach appears well though out.

Your assumption of absence I question. The cocci that infect your birds can come from other animals that are in the immediate vicinity of you setup. The cocci can likely persist in soil for a long time after a previous flock is removed. They can even come in with your outsourced chicks. There is an element of chance to cocci outbreaks so be ready to use something stronger than the medicated feed.

The real key to this is to recognize the earliest signs of cocci infection and react accordingly. My assumption is you will not be doing daily fecal checks. In most instances the chicks will signal something is wrong a day, sometimes two days before they show signs gross changes in feces and overt behavior issues indicating they are cold. It is those first signs I try to be on top of. That increases my confidence in not using medicated feeds as a default. I use non-medicated most of the time but when seeing a particular set signs I change to medicated feed immediately. If birds still having trouble, then more aggressive lacing of drinking water with medication is started. A potential problem with such an approach is that you may need to have more types of feed in storage and be concerned about shelf life of medication.

 

[Ridgerunner]

My recommendation is that you feed some dirt from where the chickens previously were to your chicks in the brooder starting from Day 2 or 3 and give them more dirt every few days. That way they can develop the immunities they need from the strain of Coccidiosis in your soil, if any. Whether or not you feed medicated feed with Amprolium at this stage is up to you. With a dry brooder and clean water it may not be necessary but different strains of coccidiosis have different strengths. I forgot to mention, depending on your type of waterer you may need to dump the water at least every two days to interrupt the life cycle of that bug. If they can poop in it they will and that can be a source of infection.

Or you can wait until they hit the ground or are otherwise introduced to the bug, if present, and feed medicated feed for at least three weeks. Or you can feed non-medicated feed and see what happens. Just because the bug is present and a part of your run is wet doesn’t mean they are going to get sick from those numbers getting out of hand. Chicks raised by broody hens very seldom have a problem with coccidiosis, they start working on that immunity immediately. But my broody hens tend to keep the chicks out of the wet areas in the run and spend most of the time foraging in my grass areas that are drier.

Regardless of how you go you need to know the signs of coccidiosis. It’s not just bloody poop. Whether or not coccidiosis causes bloody poop depends on which strain you have because of the areas of the digestive system that strain attacks. If you see a chick standing around lethargic and hunched up it’s usually a good idea to immediately start treating all of them for coccidiosis. It can kill pretty quickly. Immunity to one strain does not give immunity to all strains. You can track a new strain in on your shoes or a bird or animal can bring a new strain in at any time. One very common method of introducing new strains is to bring in older chickens that have it. But them having immunity to the strains in your soil is invaluable.

There is no one right way to do any of this. We are all unique and have our own ways to deal with this and practically everything else to do with chickens. A lot of people never feed medicated feed and extremely few purposely introduce that bug in the brooder. A lot of people accidentally introduce it but that’s another story. They never have problems with coccidiosis. The bug that causes coccidiosis is pretty prevalent so anyone can have it in the soil but most people don’t have a problem with it. But coccidiosis kills a lot of chicks, it’s one you need to be aware of.

My basic recommendation is to build up their immunity and not depend on drugs. Whether or not medicated feed is part of the process of building their immunity is up to you.