Why does it matter whose line it is from?

[EweSheep]

You all have very good points and I agree with most of the topics. I know I do ask and do ask MANY questions regarding to their Welsummers because I wanted the best I can get without diluting the gene pool with many flaws that hatchery Welsummers are notoriously problematic for me. There has been a case that I know of one Welsummer breeder that did cross his flock with hatchery Welsummers and it was disasterous but too late to fix the problem after a few years.

There are certain lines I do not want to use, such as Sandhill, despite of their preservation efforts but they are lacking quality and losing some of the traits, feathered legs are a big problem for us breeders and we would do our best to eliminate that from the flock. If we ended up getting more feather footed stubs in our Welsummers, then it is back to the drawing board to FIND that particular gene that passed on that trait. Their colors can be either too dark or too light in the hen color pattern. Sometimes we will never know.

For my Welsummer Bantams, I MUST know of their pedigree or the breeder's origin because the gene pool is so small. I am hoping to get a nice roo that would compliment my girls and if the chicks do come out even better than my expectations, then I got a jackpot that I can use over and over in my flock and do some linebreedings. If they do not, then I will cull out that roo and try again.

I am familiar with the Orp and Silky breeders and if you can keep the lines intact, you can go whatever goals you have in mind. Not all of us like the "poodle" like Silkies that Hattrick is well known for but the quality is very good. Like dogs, we want to know what lines it goes back to and what will "nick" well. As for my Amercuana bantams I used to raise, I have found that Mike Gilbert and John Blehm lines crossed very well and had absolutely goreous double bearded bantams and the colors are so vivid. It may not cross well with others. As for my Orpington bantams, I would stick with Don Chandler lines even they were from Superior Farms but every one of the descendents orginally from Mr Chandler. I would not dream of crossing on to another breeder line because I really do like the quality on the hens!

So there you go, all in a nutshell and dont be offended if we ask where your birds originated from and then we can decide if we can work with that line you created. If not, best bet is to go to the breeder himself. I would like to do what Tailfeathers is doing for his project and he would be able to list and record every breeding flock he has and work from there. I bet he can get a pedigree too!

 

[lildinkem]

Pathfinders is right. You inherit the honor of that your being your line, NOT the Breeder who you bought it from, as soon as you start to decide who makes the cut, or really avoids being cut or culled, it is your decision. Not the breeder who you bought your lines thru. Some people can destroy a great breeders lines in a very short time. Some of the people I bought my Black Orps from, will tell me who they like on whom. And I still will ask permission IF and WHEN I sell any of her birds. That is the ONLY way to be fair to the breeder and their lines you try to sell. In the Orp world, I guess we then would ALL have Doc Clevenger's Buff Orp line. He has been dead for nearly a century.
I just came back from a show, where I prolly got my highest quality bird from a guy outta Ford. Not a Pinto though. LOL Just $50 a bird. Whatta steal! You can't go by just price or the cover of the book.

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

I guess when to call them your "own line" is one of those questions like, " is the water glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty" . Yes, once you start breeding them it would not be correct to call them somebody else's line anymore. You can say they came from that line. Another factor would be the breeders ego. Case and point we have a friend that has had the Fitch line of Cuckoo Marans since the 90's, she still calls them Fitch Cuckoo's.

Steve in NC

 

[destiny_56085]

I am another of those people that are picky about what bloodlines I will mix into my birds.

There are lines of silkies that simply have problems breeding naturally now. I know of 2 such master breeders that have some very awesome birds out of this line and can't raise a chick without resorting to artificial insemination.

There are other very well known silkie breeders (I'm sure in other breeds too) that like to play with color. Its fine it you want to, but I don't want a bird from a mixed color flock. Last year I got rid of all my old whites and switched to a much more consistent line. I had all sort of wierd colors popping up out of white on white matings....greys, calicos, red pyles even.

Another testament came from a show a few weeks ago. I was talking with Connie Bergquist and I was amazed. I didn't even have to show her my breeding records. She took one a look at my birds and could tell me just by the comb's color, shape, and size. My ones with the Shorty Polston line have a dark purple more oblong walnut comb with a transverse line. The Don Jones line have darker almost black comb with no transverse lines. My birds out of the George Mihalik line have a larger, mahogany red comb with lots more bumps on it. She could also tell when I crossed lines...this one has such a comb, but the body frame/cushion of so and so's line. When I checked my records, she was right every time.

I think its also important when breeding certain colors. With partridge silkies, you almost need different lines to get the colors right in the males and females. Some people have the male line perfected. Yet others can be breeding awesome partridge gals and can't get a black breast in a male. With my black birds I am even pickier on who I will buy from. To get a good clear black with no gold/silver in the hackles is one thing. To put that color on a bird with awesome type is another.

I will claim a line as my own when I have been working with it and making changed as necessary. If I have a direct bird that I bought from a person and resell or show it, I will give them credit. If I have young stock that is 100% directly out of the birds I bought from them, then it should only be fair that I give them credit when people ask where I bought my stock from. If the bird is 2-3 generations down the line and a mix of several lines, then yeah I deserve every right to call it my own. I also get annoyed by the people that breed the low end PQ culls and try to get top dollar for that too. Some birds belong as pets only or on the dinner table. Not everyone follows that protocol though. The "OMG I got a bird with no crest, single comb, and only 4 toes, but OMG she's out of SO and SO's line, so I better get as many chicks out of her as possible". No thanks....

 

[HatTrickSilkies]

Quote:
We're just trying to breed to the AKC, err, ABA Standard.

~ Nikki

 

[Funky Feathers]

AKC, what a hoot!

I think what they mean by "poodle type" is super-fluffy with huge crests. Personally I like that type.

 

[Pathfinders]

Quote:
ROFLMAO...

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Well, as long as we don't start making poodle-ish topiaries out of them.

 

[Tailfeathers]

I would agree with those who say that once you begin to breed your own, those birds then become yours. However, one needs to understand the context that is being used in the term "Line".

I'll use my Welsummers for example. There were five original breeders that got the Welsummers accepted into the APA in 1991. Of those five there was a German Line (my first Welsummers came from this breeder) and there was a UK/Netherlands line. The UK/Netherlands line came from a show in Wales when one of the other original breeders brought them from that show to the USA. He gave some of those birds to a friend of his.

There was another breeder who was a poultry judge and lived in Canada. He had German Welsummers. And then there was a 5th Breeder that nobody seems to know much about - or at least want to talk about.

I currently have what I call my German Line and am in the process of acquiring chicks that came directly from the original UK/Netherlands birds.

So, for example, when setting up my breeding program, I have three different "lines". I will always have a German Line, a UK/Netherlands Line, and then I will have my own line that is a mix-match of the two.

God Bless,

 

[EweSheep]

Quote:
Exactly and Hattrick is one of my favorite Silkies of all time. Sorry Staford and other lines but THAT is what I like in a Silkie, big poofy powder puff that you would love to snuggle your face into!

Not everyone would like that kind of "poodle" but to each their own! I agree with Destiny on her points and how Silkies are being made and whats pleasing to the owner or breeders eye in what THEY want out of their Silkies.

Tailfeathers, if I am correct, I am certain that the German lined Welsummers tend to be a little darker in color than the UK/Netherland lines. It is that way for Faverolles. But each one of them have their own traits! It would be interesting to see how your Welsummers come out.