Why I'm Against Organic (read all the way through before you flame)

[call ducks]

i agree, i don't hate orgainc, but insted of buying orgainc i would like to see people buy local.

 

[dntd]

I buy both organic and non certified organic and normal.It's big companies like montesino which will end our farming not organic, play with a good thing too much you will be burned( also the cost of seed and such will be 100% controled by them, no saving seeds for next year).As a society we bacame lazy, we want bigger,faster,cheaper and it better look good. Most people don't know carrots come in purple or that chickens can lay green or blue egg.We are so distanced from our foods that say a small bruise makes people throw out the entire apple rather then cutting it off.

 

[michickenwrangler]

Quote:
In a broader sense, organic means "from an organism" e.g. it is or once was a living thing. In gardening sense, it means that the fertilizers used were once living things: animal waste derived from herbivores = grass. This is in contrast to chemical fertilizers that became popular in the early 1900s.

 

[greathorse]

I take some issue with the broad statement "I am against organic." I dont get that at all. I think one can make a myriad of arguments about whether some aspects of organic production are more or less sustainable than conventional production. I see valid arguments on both sides.

The truth is that there is a protocol for producing food under a standard that allows us to label it and market it as organic, we can all choose whether or not it has value. How and why folks would argue that it is either good or bad is a ridiculous argument. An discussion about whether or not it has value for you or me is valid and worth consideration.

Will it save the world? I doubt it? Is it better in the long run for our planet? I beleive so, but respect every person's right to decide for themselves. Can we feed the world with organic production? I have seen strong arguments that it could be done, but I haven't seen it in practice. Is organic production by defintion sustainable? No not nearly always. Are conventional systems unstustainable? Probably not by defintion, but some would argue that there are elements of conventional production that will catch up with us in the long run. I read some research that indicates that the weeds we kill when spraying GMO crops will sooner or later morph into a resistant plant on their own and create some real problems in the future. I for one feel that this is a very real possibilty.

Just some observations of my own, as I have stated many times I have a hard time understanding why anyone is "against" food production.

 

[call ducks]

Quote:
and that is why i say don`t buy orgaing, but insted buy local,as i know with my self a i run a hobby farm, and sell produce i can not label it orgcanic, but i would not sell anything i would not eat myself.

 

[greathorse]

Why would you say dont buy organic? Organic can certainly be local. I get it if you have a belief that local is best and that knowing a local growers practices are sustainable, but dont understand why that eliminates organic production for you. Makes no sense

I would also submit that local from a carbon footprint stanpoint isnt necessarily better. Bringing a few dozen eggs to a farmers market from a few miles away can likely burn way more fuel than transporting a truckload a thousand miles. There are many reasons to buy local and I like doing it when I can, but just submitting that it is not always fuel consumption.

 

[95yj]

I'm kind of scared by the number of replies i have spawned... but pleasantly surprised by peoples open minds and willingness to consider a different side of the story. As i stated earlier (can't blame you if you missed it) I kind of miss-stated the title, i am not of the opinion that everybody should completely drop organic, i just feel that there should be more pressure to buy local than organic. In my mind large scale industrial farming is wrong, in a perfect world every town would have 2-3 small farms that can support the town and everybody can see where their food comes from, will this ever happen? Of course not, but we can try by buying from local farmers instead of taking the easy way and buying industrial organic produce from the grocery store, I'm kind of preaching to the choire here but whatever. Somebody was also asking what chemicals can be used in organic production, i made up a list (fine, i googled chemicals allowed under organic legislation, but it still took effort alright) Pyrethrum: used as an insecticide, long term exposure (such as eating sprayed food for years) can cause liver damage among other problems, it is actually a fairly nasty chemical. Nicotine sulfate: used as a pesticide for both insects and rodents, can be dangerous to humans with skin contact, ingestion or inhalation. Rotenone: used as catipillar and beetle control, mildly toxic for humans and extremely toxic for fish. While there is a very limited chance of actually ingesting a large enough quantity off of a single tomato is very rare, you may pick up enough over the years to cause bodily harm. The chemicals can also leach into the soil and water, and poison people in these ways. Whoever was asking, i have read both michael pollan and barbara kingsolver, and my families always been into gardening, but i introduced the chickens and started increasing the size of our vegetable "production." Last year after reading a few of my books and watching a couple food inc. type movies my mom decided that she was going to only eat meat from a local slaughter house (they'll let watch them process, and when you go in you can see half a cow hanging from the ceiling in the meat room) or stuff i raised and processed in the backyard, so my decision to pursue an agricultural future was partially influenced by my family (but my dads a computer scientist, so not much help there) and largely from our very active 4h program in the area. If you have any specific issues with my stances feel free to pm me.

 

[The Chicken Lady]

You can edit your original post to reword the title.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

Quote:
All of these are organic because they are natural, plant based insecticides. Because they are plant based they break down rapidly in the environment instead of hanging around for years or even decades.

Pyrethrum: used as an insecticide, long term exposure (such as eating sprayed food for years) can cause liver damage among other problems, it is actually a fairly nasty chemical.

Pyrethrum is one of the most widely used natural pesticides. As far as pesticides go, this is one of the safest out there. It is relatively non-toxic to mammals. When fed in high doses to rats it caused liver damage. Moral of the story: don't drink pesticides, but use them for their intended purpose. I'd be more concerned about what's in the personal deodorant you use each day.

Nicotine sulfate: used as a pesticide for both insects and rodents, can be dangerous to humans with skin contact, ingestion or inhalation.

This is tobacco dust. It is a prohibited substance under the USDA National Organic Plan.

Rotenone: used as catipillar and beetle control, mildly toxic for humans and extremely toxic for fish

Fairly toxic. It is not commonly used on crops and its use is being phased out in North America. It is commonly used to kill fish when clearing waters for restocking.​

 

[rancher hicks]

One of the biggest plaques in this country is ignorance. I will take issue with .

"the organic feed that you feed is PROBABLY sprayed with pyretum". I would certainly not make my dicision to to agree on "Probably", Either it is or it isn't. Research this and then make the statement.

All of us can make statements based on Opinion. Not having done the research one can not say organic is bad or good. The fact that large farms grow large quantities of organic food does not disqualify them.

Had you done your research you would know that only 80% of the feed that goes into "organic" feed has to be "organic" which means the 20% does not. Is it? I haven't researched each brand of organic feed to say so.

When given the choice to drink a glass of water that has 100% dangerous chemicals in it or 20% which would you choose? Having done research for my college ecology class I can tell you that there is no water that we drink that is 100% pure. None.

Further my research tells me that the soil has to be certified as organic as well. A farmer using chemicals has to wait some time before his soil can be declared safe enough to call his produce organic. He can't just stop using pesticides and start calling his crops organic. Do some research on what a "half life" means in reference to chemicals in you'll understand.

That said do some research on "Organic Laws" What a farmer has to do to declare his crops "Organic" and then decide.

Even the definition given by Michickens' definition is lacking. Herbavores do not just eat grass. What's more plants are living things. There are sprays being developed from plants to protect against insects. These sprays are made with the "chemicals" of the plants.

Now as for those who can't afford to switch to organic feeds, you have to understand the nature of economics. Small folks like us can't produce the quantities it takes to distribute our costs over larger quantities.

Here I sell eggs for $2.00 a doz. non organic fed birds. The cost of non organic eggs in the store are $1.19 or there abouts. I don't think that's a bad thing. If it cost me $1.00 a doz to produce that's not a bad profit. From the business sense a person can produce more for less $$$. I can't but someone else may be able to if they had all the right stuff. I do let them range and that reduces the bad things and increases the good things, but not as much as could be.

Finally OP before you make your up you mind, do some research first so you have a solid fact based opinion. Large organic farming is not a bad thing. Study Economics and Farming and Organic Farming then form an opinion. What is it about chemical fertilizers that make them bad? Like it or not manure contains "chemicals". Techically speaking , GIGO, Garbage In, Garbage Out. Animals don't magically convert bad things into good things. What goes in chemically speaking comes out the other end. You then put it in your soil the plant takes it up and you eat the plant and now it's in you. However by using less we can reduce the man made (key) chemicals our animals eat and that's better for us, cuz we eat less man made (key) chemicals.

My point do some research and form an educated opinion.

Wishing you the best
Rancher