Why I'm Against Organic (read all the way through before you flame)

[dntd]

To tell you the truth I'm more worried about what Monsanto is doing to farming, they can sue a farmer and ruin them because thier crops dna has cross pollenated with another non Monsanto crop. I think this company is playing with fire, when will the government see that this company is going to make farming alot harder in the future.

 

[xyresicchick]

Quote:
x2

monsanto = a company whose vileness and evilness is far beyond comprehension. boycott = yes.

 

[welsummerchicks]

"You will NEVER find organic electrolytes. Minerals, by definition are non-organic since they contain no carbon. Potassium, phosphorus, sodium, etc... are pure elements. They are not grown, only mined. Remember back to high school chemistry ..."

I do remember high school chemistry and organic chemistry as well. And if minerals are non organic, perhaps then some would say, chickens should not be fed minerals if their eggs are to be certified organic?

I didn't mean 'organic' in the formal sense like containing carbon, I meant 'organic' in the sense the word is commonly used, like 'sounds like something I can give chickens and still get certified as organic, based on the fairly arbitrary and odd criteria one has to meet to get that certification', or even more generally, 'sounds like what people think of as 'organic', or 'sounds like something people purchasing my eggs would think was 'ok''.

No two people see to entirely agree as to what 'organic' means. Some folks seem to think anything that is powdered and comes in a package from a feed store is 'not organic', anything that comes from a health food store is 'organic'.

One lady told me I HAD to buy feed that was sold at a health food store. I checked it out. It came in ten pound bags. It would have cost me approximately 1100 dollars a month to feed my chickens that feed, and my vet did not recommend it as she said it did not have a good % of things like protein and fat and minerals.

One lady told me if I fed my chicks medicated feed to prevent salmonella(something the vet recommended), that meant they weren't 'organic' and she wouldn't buy my eggs, for example, as giving any medication is 'not organic'. Another told me she would not buy my eggs because my chickens had been vaccinated at birth against a serious disease, something the vet also strongly recommended.

Another lady told me that if I fed brand X (certified organic feed), instead of Brand Y (certified organic feed), she would not buy my eggs, because 'Brand X has more wholesome ingredients'. Ok, define wholesome? Well, I don't really know.

When people say, 'is it organic', they don't mean 'does it contain carbon or not', they mean, was it raised without pesticides, commercial fertilizers, commercial drugs, and feed additives they don't like. Those things aren't rejected because they do or don't contain carbon, but because they are seen as negative or harmful.

For some people, it also means management practices like animals spending all or most time pastured, not feeding certain grains(even if organic), not feeding urea, tankage, not feeding any animal products, or any byproducts of the food industry. Everyone has a somewhat different idea of exactly what 'organic' means, what they exclude or include as 'organic'.

Most people around here who sell eggs, don't even seem to TRY for the 'certified organic' label/certification unless (ironically) they have a fairly big commercial operation going. They can get that designation while doing a lot of things that most people wouldn't associate with the word 'organic'.

 

[michickenwrangler]

The organic means the fertilizer was once living, grass and plant matter eaten by herbivores. It has gotten far from its original meaning. If you were to follow this definition, anything plant or animal derived (plant extracts, blood and bone meal) would qualify and they do.

Again, I'm not sure how minerals could be classified or sold as organic since they are basically rocks which are older than anything else on this earth. They haven't been raised, cultivated, grown or anything else. They simply ARE.

Now that I think about it, I suppose if a calcium supplement is extruded from milk or bones, it could be organic. If it comes from ground limestone, it wouldn't be. Same thing with iron: from blood = organic, from iron oxide = non-organic. BUT this wouldn't mean any better or worse, just the ORIGIN of it

 

[LovinMyPeeps]

Good morning all, I just want to quickly throw my 2 cents in...

A local farmer and friend of mine has a USDA Organic Certified Farm. Beyond the certification in and of itself where she had to leap through many flaming hoops with a lot of money spent on the certification itself, she was told that if she wanted to be able to actually stamp her meat with USDA Organic she had to then pay to certify the local processing plant that was taking care of her meat thus forcing her to increase the price of the meat that she set for her consumers. So she asked everyone... you want to pay $1 per pound for a fancy stanp or keep things like they are? Everyone agreed, to heck with the stamp.

I grow my veggies and raise my animals in an "organic style". I say organic style as I do not spray, I do not add any of the "approved" items other than my chicken manure and my compost. I do not use black plastic row covers, I just deal with the weeds and weed as best I can whenever possible. I water with rainwater and my own water. It is what it is. I have news for everyone if you want to argue organic to the purest sense of the word then it best be grown in a glass greenhouse watered only by purely filtered water in sterilized thoroughly tested topsoil and well... good luck with that.

I personally feel that the locavore movement as well as sustainability is the way to go. Crop rotations, having animals to compliment the compost and provide natural fertilizer, getting away from as much petrolium based farming as possible as well as chemicals, these are the important things. I agree that the world is obsessed with "faster, bigger, better" but I think a small juicy tomatoe to me is far better than any huge tasteless perfectly red tomatoe I find at the grocery store. The local farmers have also taken to bartering for things they dont grow themselves. I try to not buy anything not grown in the NorthEast. Anything else I purchase (like figs/dates/avacados) I try to get from the USA and are a treat. There is also a pride in helping sustain local farmers. There are incredible farmers markets popping up everywhere... UTILIZE THEM!!

 

[FluffyColor]

Quote:
well, I personally don't want poo on my food. The idea grosses me out

, but I don't like those nasty chemicals...
What if the residue remains??

You ARE aware that sewage sludge is used to fertilize many fields, right? Once the sewage goes through the treatment facility, the liquids are typically dumped in the rivers, and the treated solids (once treated it is called biosolids) are available for use as fertilizer for fields.

According to the EPA about half of all sewage sludge is applied to fields in this manner. This is done in all 50 states. About 1% of agricultural land is fertilized with treated sludge.

By the way, this includes use on fruit & vegetable crops & it is even legal for the sludge to be sold for use on home gardens.

No. I didn't know anything about self-sufficent things 'til last year. I come from a city background. Both my parents are city people and then they moved here after they got married and my mom gave birth to me in December of the following year. I was always a city girl, when I was little. I had a very expensive taste (always ordered very expensive things when we went out) and my favorite dinner was Surf & Turf. It was my science project that got me into the country thing. I still love the city, though.

That is simply gross!

 

[BlackBart]

There is all sorts of natural products you can use for pest/blight control.
You can buy naturally occurring micro-organisms for making healthy soil. Natural pest control using predators or nematodes.
Neem oil for pests and cinnamon for mildew, sulfur for rust etc.. Fatty soaps.
Epsom salts for "greening". Oyster shell for calcium supplement instead of bone meal. Bait plants and compatible plantings etc..
I was reading awhile back that bone meal is now being discouraged. I know in my business I will not use it, I use oyster shell and greenstone. Just the warning labels alone on the bone meal bucket would make you wonder how healthy the product is.

Using rain barrels with bags of carbon (activated charcoal) in them, seem to be popular with some organic farmers. Old timers used to use charcoal left over from fires.

As for poo on your veggies. Plants also take in nutrition systemically. So it is in the plant itself. Not poo in its visual form but the nutrients in poo.

I had a very good text book on feeding plants naturally for optimal taste and nutrition content. Very interesting and easy to do. Unfortunately I lent the book to someone and they never gave it back and I don't remember who it was. But all that info is available on-line.

 

[country lady]

I haven't read all the posts, but this is an interesting thread. I would love to have Harvey Ussery weigh in on this subject since he has written that he has always used organic methods. He sounds very successful.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

Quote:
No. Ground limestone is allowed as an organic input. Everybody is getting confused on the word "organic". In agricultural production it does not strictly mean "carbon based". Organic production means using all natural methods and inputs, vs synthetic, man-made inputs. It also encompasses conservation methods and animal welfare standards.

It should be possible to get organic electrolytes, as much of it is natural minerals. Many of the electrolyte packs also contain vitamins though. The vitamins in your typical electrolyte pack are probably not organic, but synthesized.

 

[rancher hicks]

Quote:
What's in the fertilizer is in the apples, tomatos, whatever you plant in the soil or water you use to grow your produce. Not just what you spray on the surface.